Sgt Christmas Wilson

[Alan Riches]

Hello all,

 

I'm researching 20914 Sgt Christmas James Wilson who was killed on 1 July 1916 while serving with the 1st Essex Regt.

 

Wilson was born Christmas James Copsey in Swaffham on 24 December 1878.  According to SDGW, Wilson was formerly 5373, Norfolk Regt.  His service number seems to indicate that he enlisted in the Norfolk Regt in 1899/1900.  The 1911 Census has a 31-year-old Pte Chris Wilson from Swaffham serving with the 1st Battalion at Aldershot which is probably him.  So far so good.  But the next thing I know he is a Cpl with the Essex Regt disembarking at Gallipoli on 9 October 1915.  He was subsequently killed as a Sgt with the 1st Essex on the First Day of the Somme.

 

What I'm trying to find out is what happened to Christmas Wilson between 1911 and 1915.  Was he discharged from the Norfolk Regt before the outbreak of the First World War and re-enlisted in the Essex Regt in 1914/1915?  Was he still serving with the Norfolks on the outbreak of war but somehow transferred to the Essex Regt?  If he left the army in 1911, would he have been on the Army Reserve in 1914?  If so, would he not have been recalled to his old regiment?  As an experienced soldier, why did he not see action until October 1915?

 

Any suggestions members have would be most welcome - it's driving me mad trying to figure it out!

 

Alan                 

[ss002d6252]

21 minutes ago, Alan Riches said:

Hello all,

 

I'm researching 20914 Sgt Christmas James Wilson who was killed on 1 July 1916 while serving with the 1st Essex Regt.

 

Wilson was born Christmas James Copsey in Swaffham on 24 December 1878.  According to SDGW, Wilson was formerly 5373, Norfolk Regt.  His service number seems to indicate that he enlisted in the Norfolk Regt in 1899/1900.  The 1911 Census has a 31-year-old Pte Chris Wilson from Swaffham serving with the 1st Battalion at Aldershot which is probably him.  So far so good.  But the next thing I know he is a Cpl with the Essex Regt disembarking at Gallipoli on 9 October 1915.  He was subsequently killed as a Sgt with the 1st Essex on the First Day of the Somme.

 

What I'm trying to find out is what happened to Christmas Wilson between 1911 and 1915.  Was he discharged from the Norfolk Regt before the outbreak of the First World War and re-enlisted in the Essex Regt in 1914/1915?  Was he still serving with the Norfolks on the outbreak of war but somehow transferred to the Essex Regt?  If he left the army in 1911, would he have been on the Army Reserve in 1914?  If so, would he not have been recalled to his old regiment?  As an experienced soldier, why did he not see action until October 1915?

 

Any suggestions members have would be most welcome - it's driving me mad trying to figure it out!

 

Alan                 

When does the #20914 number date from ?

I can't get FindMyPast to work to check but if someone can then the war gratuity should be able to answer the question.

Craig

[corisande]

Was it Soldiers Effects you wanted Craig

 

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, corisande said:

Was it Soldiers Effects you wanted Craig

 

Thanks. Are you able to get the  rough date #20914 would have been issued ? FMP won't work for me so can't check the service records.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

The Essex men were block transferred from the Norfolks
 

#20902   allocated 10 Sep 1915    
#20926   allocated 10 Sep 1915

Craig

[ss002d6252]

After an analysis of the war gratuity I believe we can say he was a regular soldier at the outbreak of war.

 

The maximum war service by 1 July 1916 would be 23 months.

 

If we assume he was a war time enlistment, territorial or reservist.

Service Gratuity for 23 months was     £2
Type 1 War Gratuity paid was              £13 10s
Gross War Gratuity                              £15 10s
 

A Sergeant was awarded £8 for 12 months then £7 10s for a further 15 months would give 27 months - clearly this can't happen as it would exceed the maximum of 23 months.
 

If we assume he was a regular soldier at the outbreak
 

Type 1 War Gratuity paid was         £13 10s
Gross War Gratuity                         £13 10s
 

A Sergeant was awarded £8 for 12 months then £5 10s for 11 months would give 23 months - this matches the expected war gratuity for a regular soldier at the outbreak.

Craig

[PRC]

5 hours ago, Alan Riches said:

Hello all,

 

I'm researching 20914 Sgt Christmas James Wilson who was killed on 1 July 1916 while serving with the 1st Essex Regt.

 

Wilson was born Christmas James Copsey in Swaffham on 24 December 1878.  According to SDGW, Wilson was formerly 5373, Norfolk Regt.  His service number seems to indicate that he enlisted in the Norfolk Regt in 1899/1900.  The 1911 Census has a 31-year-old Pte Chris Wilson from Swaffham serving with the 1st Battalion at Aldershot which is probably him.  So far so good.  But the next thing I know he is a Cpl with the Essex Regt disembarking at Gallipoli on 9 October 1915.  He was subsequently killed as a Sgt with the 1st Essex on the First Day of the Somme.

 

What I'm trying to find out is what happened to Christmas Wilson between 1911 and 1915.  Was he discharged from the Norfolk Regt before the outbreak of the First World War and re-enlisted in the Essex Regt in 1914/1915?  Was he still serving with the Norfolks on the outbreak of war but somehow transferred to the Essex Regt?  If he left the army in 1911, would he have been on the Army Reserve in 1914?  If so, would he not have been recalled to his old regiment?  As an experienced soldier, why did he not see action until October 1915?

            

I’m sure you’re aware the Army Service Number blogspot site shows for the Norfolk Regiment:-

 

5122 joined on 19th January 1899
5554 joined on 2nd March 1900

Source: http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/07/norfolk-regiment-1st-2nd-battalions.html

 

If did enlist then and was still serving in April 1911 then most likely he had either had opted for doing a full 12 years in colours or had taken a 21 year enlistment.

If it was a 12 year term then he was probably a few months from discharge at the time of the census. That would mean he was under no legal obligation to turn up at the barracks in August 1914. He could therefore have joined up again at any point.

If he was a 21 year term man then he would have still have been in the Army.

 

He does not appear to be on the Swaffham War Memorial in the Town centre or in the Church of St Peter & St Paul under either name – although there is a Charles Copsey shown in on the Church Memorial as 6th Dragoons.

 

On Soldiers Died in the Great War Christmas James Wilson is shown as resident Northwold,Norfolk enlisted Downham, Norfolk.

(I can confirm Christmas Wilson is on the memorial at Northwold.)

 

Given his age, if he was discharged post the 1911 census, then potentially he would have been a householder. However he’s not on the electoral register for Norfolk in the period for 1911 – 1915 as far as I can tell.

 

One of the other possibilities is that he may have moved in with his brother and sister-in-law. Maybe a co-incidence but there is a 36 year old Ada Wilson, born Methwold , Norfolk, whose husband is the 37 year old Page Wilson, born Mileham, Norfolk.

 

Following Page back to the 1891 Census of England & Wales, the 17 year old Page Wilson, born Mileham, and the 12 year old Christmas Wilson, born Swaffham, were recorded living at Cross Lane, Wretton, Norfolk, with parents William & Susan.

 

As to how he got to the Essex Regiment in September 1915 there is a possibility worth considering.

 

At the end of July 1915 two drafts of men from the 3rd Battalion, Norfolk, totalling 300, volunteered to go out as re-inforcements to serve in the 1st Essex to make good losses at Gallipoli. Their Transport ship the Royal Edward was torpedoed on the 13th August 1915. I’ve not kept formal track of the service numbers they have been issued but I believe they started about the 206** / 207** range.

 

From another website

 

“To partly replace this sad loss, another draft of 150 men to the Essex Regiment was dispatched on September 29, 1915.”

 

 1994 From: "Men of Gallipoli"(David & Charles,1988)

“Finally the hospital ship SOUDAIN arrived to pick them up in her life-boats, and at 2 o'clock Fraser was safely aboard her after just under five hours in the sea. He remembers that a large number of men lost their false teeth as we were constantly sick in the sea- and these men were sent back to England. We the younger ones, were clothed and kitted and on another ship three days later for Gallipoli.”

http://www.paulinedodd.com/from-norfolk-to-gallipoli.html

 

I couldn’t find anything in the Norwich Mercury & Norfolk Chronicle that reference him in July 1916. Northwold also seems to have been covered by the Eastern Daily Press \ Eastern Evening News but I’ve only got partial coverage for that month and have had no trace.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Peter

[Alan Riches]

Craig and Peter,

 

Thank you very much for your excellent contributions.  You have certainly answered my most pressing question, ie was Christmas Wilson still serving in the Norfolk Regiment on the outbreak of the First World War.  The answer seems unequivocally to be yes.  It also appears that he was transferred to the 1st Essex Regiment in September 1915 as part of draft to replace losses at Gallipoli.  So far so good.

 

This now raises the question of what he was doing between August 1914 and September 1915.  If he was still with the 1st Norfolk at the outbreak of war, why did he not deploy with them to France?  If he was with the 2nd Battalion in India, why did he not deploy with them to Mesopotamia?  Could he have been on the staff of the 3rd Battalion at Felixstowe?  This seems possible, if the three drafts of reinforcements who volunteered to join the 1st Essex in the summer of 1915 all came from the 3rd Norfolk.

 

I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

 

Alan      

 

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, Alan Riches said:

Craig and Peter,

 

Thank you very much for your excellent contributions.  You have certainly answered my most pressing question, ie was Christmas Wilson still serving in the Norfolk Regiment on the outbreak of the First World War.  The answer seems unequivocally to be yes.  It also appears that he was transferred to the 1st Essex Regiment in September 1915 as part of draft to replace losses at Gallipoli.  So far so good.

 

This now raises the question of what he was doing between August 1914 and September 1915.  If he was still with the 1st Norfolk at the outbreak of war, why did he not deploy with them to France?  If he was with the 2nd Battalion in India, why did he not deploy with them to Mesopotamia?  Could he have been on the staff of the 3rd Battalion at Felixstowe?  This seems possible, if the three drafts of reinforcements who volunteered to join the 1st Essex in the summer of 1915 all came from the 3rd Norfolk.

 

I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

  

Alan      

 

 

I would put my money on him being used as an instructor somewhere but you can probably never say for certain.

Craig

[PRC]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

 

I would put my money on him being used as an instructor somewhere but you can probably never say for certain.

Craig

 

May not have even been as formal as an "instructor" but instead part of a cadre of pre-war regulars placed amongst the recruits to show them the regular army way. Of course it's likely to be guesswork but I can think of at least two scenarios from Norfolk Regiment men I've researched over the years.

 

1: Being held in August 1914 at the depot in Norwich for the last few weeks of his period of 1 year enlistment. Rather than being sent to Belfast to join up with the 1st Battalion, he was retained and sent with the 3rd Battalion to Felixstowe. Suspect that was to sort out his status, a situation that may well have applied to men who had signed up on longer terms and who had taken one year extensions - something that could be the case for Christmas Wilson as any 12 year term would have expired..

2: Being treated for an in-growing toe-nail, (but could be any other treatment for ill-health). By the time he had recovered to be found fit for light duties, the 1st Battalion were out in France so he was sent to the 3rd Battalion.

 

Neither man are shown as being instructors, and neither were promoted, making it out to France in the summer and early autumn of 1915.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Alan Riches]

Gentlemen,

 

Thanks again for your replies.  I guess we'll never know for certain what Christmas Wilson was up to before he went to Gallipoli in the autumn of 1915, but you've given me plenty of food for thought.

 

Alan