Julievic Posted 28 March , 2019 Share Posted 28 March , 2019 (edited) Hello Could anyone help with the identification of the uniform / regiment in the attached photo? I have very little information, but believe it may have been taken in India. The only name I have is John Neilson Dewar. He is in the back row, second from the right. He was in the 1/2 Scottish Horse and served in Egypt in 1916. He was later in India from around 1920 through till 1936. I also know that in 1930 he was working as a Civil Engineer for the Bengal & North Western Railway. Any information at all would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance. Julie Edited 28 March , 2019 by Julievic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 28 March , 2019 Admin Share Posted 28 March , 2019 Welcome to the forum. The gentleman without the bandolier in the back row appears to have Prince of Wales Feathers on his collar and on his solar topee. I can't make out any of the others, and I'm afraid I don't know what the patches mean. Hopefully the experts will be along soon. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 28 March , 2019 Share Posted 28 March , 2019 Cavalry from the bandoliers and the puttees appear to be wound for mounted duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 28 March , 2019 Share Posted 28 March , 2019 Has a sort of early inter-war feel to it. A close up of the collar dogs would help, plus a close up of the helmet flash although not in colour, the striping seems quite distinctive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 28 March , 2019 Share Posted 28 March , 2019 How about 10th Hussars in India (Lucknow) in early 1930s? Badge here: http://militarybadgecollection.com/2014/12/01/384-collar-badges-corps-british-army.htm Comparison picture: https://www.image-restore.co.uk/blog/photo-restoration-lucknow-india-1934-royal-hussars/. Just an idea. To me, it looks as if the helmet patches are brand new and they are showing them off. A regimental or cavalry brigade flash? Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julievic Posted 29 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2019 Thank you all for your help and suggestions. Have tried zooming in on the photo, but it doesn't help much, although by the shape I did think the badge might be United Provinces Horse. Then while searching google images I found a photo on ebay. The men in the photo have the same patch on their pith helmets. They are part of United Provinces Horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 29 March , 2019 Share Posted 29 March , 2019 Is this the one Julie? From the times of India Illustrated Weekly Supplement, May 8, 1912. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julievic Posted 29 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2019 45 minutes ago, Waddell said: Is this the one Julie? From the times of India Illustrated Weekly Supplement, May 8, 1912. Scott Yes, that's the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 March , 2019 Share Posted 29 March , 2019 (edited) The SNCO with the Prince of Wales’s insignia appears to be a Permanent Staff Instructor from the 10th Royal Hussars. Cap, collar and arm badge (just about visible) were all variations of the PoW feathers. Edited 29 March , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 29 March , 2019 Share Posted 29 March , 2019 Sorry for tampering. May help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 29 March , 2019 Share Posted 29 March , 2019 Just rule out Welch Regiment. In the right area but not mounted and the helmet flash is white, red, green. 3rd Dragoons would have a very narrow window being merged with 6th Dragoons in 1922, losing the three feathers in the process. I would pursue the 10th Hussars as per Frogsmile. Find the helmet flash for 10th or who the PSI chap is, should be able to find who that is. Frogsmile what is the correct term for the solar helmet "flash"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julievic Posted 29 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2019 Thanks again all. The zooming in is much better than anything I could get. So should I rule out United Province Horse? (The photo shown before the one above, in the India Illustrated Weekly Supplement states United Province Horse.) The flash on the helmet looks the same. I wonder why the man on the left has a different flash to the other men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 30 March , 2019 Share Posted 30 March , 2019 13 hours ago, Scalyback said: Just rule out Welch Regiment. In the right area but not mounted and the helmet flash is white, red, green. 3rd Dragoons would have a very narrow window being merged with 6th Dragoons in 1922, losing the three feathers in the process. I would pursue the 10th Hussars as per Frogsmile. Find the helmet flash for 10th or who the PSI chap is, should be able to find who that is. When the 3rd Dragoon Guards merged with the 6th Dragoon Guards (Caribiniers), the badge settled on featured the crossed carbines of the 6th, but behind the PoW feathers of the 3rd, so the plume was very much still there until eventual amalgamation with the 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) in the 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 31 March , 2019 Share Posted 31 March , 2019 On 30/03/2019 at 10:11, Steven Broomfield said: When the 3rd Dragoon Guards merged with the 6th Dragoon Guards (Caribiniers), the badge settled on featured the crossed carbines of the 6th, but behind the PoW feathers of the 3rd, so the plume was very much still there until eventual amalgamation with the 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) in the 60's. Sorry I thought the POW feathers dropped and the crossed carbines the major feature of the cap badge. (I may be possibly for some reason be thinking of a pioneer badge!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 April , 2019 Share Posted 1 April , 2019 (edited) On 29/03/2019 at 21:45, Julievic said: Thanks again all. The zooming in is much better than anything I could get. So should I rule out United Province Horse? (The photo shown before the one above, in the India Illustrated Weekly Supplement states United Province Horse.) The flash on the helmet looks the same. I wonder why the man on the left has a different flash to the other men? No don’t rule it out. The UPH were an Indian Auxiliary (i.e. non-regular) unit. Like all British auxiliary units it had some permanent staff instructors attached from regular units with the task of planning, administering and delivering training in order to maintain reasonable standards of proficiency within part-time units. In some cases units that provided instructors were formally aligned via ‘affiliations’ where this was practicable, but in places like India the sheer pragmatism of utilising the local regular unit was more common. Thus the parent unit of the instructors would change as regimental relief took place. In this case it seems to me to be the 10th Royal Hussars. Edited 3 April , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 April , 2019 Share Posted 1 April , 2019 On 29/03/2019 at 20:29, Scalyback said: Just rule out Welch Regiment. In the right area but not mounted and the helmet flash is white, red, green. 3rd Dragoons would have a very Frogsmile what is the correct term for the solar helmet "flash"? I’ve always seen it referred to as a “Pagri Flash”, but I do not know if that’s how it appears in the stores inventory. They were invariably made-up locally by a mixture of Durzis (native tailors) and unit tailor’s shops under the Master Tailor (a ‘staff sergeant’). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 1 April , 2019 Share Posted 1 April , 2019 Thank you Frogsmile. Pagri Flash is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 April , 2019 Share Posted 3 April , 2019 On 01/04/2019 at 18:57, Scalyback said: Thank you Frogsmile. Pagri Flash is good enough for me. Just to be clear, outside of India it was sometimes Anglicised as ‘puggaree flash’, but the Indian spelling was more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 3 April , 2019 Share Posted 3 April , 2019 Here is a link to the British & Commonwealth badge collectors Forum showing the cap of the United Provinces Horse. https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29676 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 4 April , 2019 Share Posted 4 April , 2019 Is there a "bible" on the Indian Army auxiliary cavalry units? They seem in some anecdotes to have out-Yeomanryed the Yeomanry, in terms of cushy living, silver collections and fancy distinctions of dress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 April , 2019 Share Posted 4 April , 2019 (edited) On 04/04/2019 at 08:58, BullerTurner said: Is there a "bible" on the Indian Army auxiliary cavalry units? They seem in some anecdotes to have out-Yeomanryed the Yeomanry, in terms of cushy living, silver collections and fancy distinctions of dress! Sadly nothing in the public forum. There are some archived records and occasional articles in military history society bulletins, but little else. They did not come under the Army, but under the Indian and Colonial Office . Edited 8 April , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 8 April , 2019 Share Posted 8 April , 2019 On 04/04/2019 at 10:20, FROGSMILE said: Sadly nothing in the public forum. There are some archived records and occasional articles in military history society bulletins, but little else. They did not come under the Army, but under the Indian and Colonial Office. Didnt the Indian Army come under the Government of India rather than the War Office too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 April , 2019 Share Posted 8 April , 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, BullerTurner said: Didnt the Indian Army come under the Government of India rather than the War Office too? Yes, as I understand it policy within the sub-continent was the remit of the government of India in coordination with the India and Colonial Offices, although these things evolved over time after the Honourable East India Company was abolished and its responsibilities taken over by the Crown in 1858. Ergo the initial set up had changed significantly by 1947. Edited 8 April , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 8 April , 2019 Share Posted 8 April , 2019 The Indian Army (British Army) as a single entity under the Governor General was initially created in 1895. Prior to that the forces of the three Presidencies had been separate, firstly under HEIC control and subsequent to the Mutiny, under crown authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 April , 2019 Share Posted 8 April , 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BullerTurner said: The Indian Army (British Army) as a single entity under the Governor General was initially created in 1895. Prior to that the forces of the three Presidencies had been separate, firstly under HEIC control and subsequent to the Mutiny, under crown authority. Yes, I am aware of the changes and their culmination in a unified Indian Army under the influence of Kitchener, but it didn’t seem appropriate to try and explain in a few sentences the evolution of the administration. Footnote: Also bear in mind that just as in Britain until 1908, regular forces came under one authority, the auxiliary forces came under another, as the latter were essentially civilians. For quite a long time they did not even fall under military law, unless and until they were embodied (mobilised). Edited 8 April , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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