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identifying WW1 rank


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Looks like a 2nd Lieutenant

Edited by Jools mckenna
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2nd Lieutenant 

075B3CCC-72A1-4EB8-8F30-F04DD7EC3557.png

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9 hours ago, Gardenerbill said:

Looks like a single pip to me, so I would say 2nd Lieutenant. He also has 3 overseas service chevrons.

It looks like 4 chevrons (including the 1914 one at the bottome), especially in the second photo. Probably started the war in the ranks?

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The 

23 minutes ago, munce said:

It looks like 4 chevrons (including the 1914 one at the bottome), especially in the second photo. Probably started the war in the ranks?

I think the bottom one you refer to is part of the Scottish pattern cuff rank insignia

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Was "Under Officer" used in the great war? The bottom picture looks very like the modern use of the rank. Given his oversea chevrons he is a bit long in the tooth to be a one pip wonder. 

He is suited and booted but not yet holding a commission? 

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Both photographs are later than Dec 1917. .... oversea chevrons issued from Jan 1918.

 

I think that I see the 1914 red chevron showing, as we would expect, very dark.

I agree that the subject is a second lieutenant.

 

As an aside, I have seen a few sergeant majors [RSM in current money] of Highland regiments wearing the crown rank badge but also with a horizontal braid as an officer look-alike, in line with the officer tunic design.

I will see if I can find an illustration.

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7 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Both photographs are later than Dec 1917. .... oversea chevrons issued from Jan 1918.

 

I think that I see the 1914 red chevron showing, as we would expect, very dark.

I agree that the subject is a second lieutenant.

 

As an aside, I have seen a few sergeant majors [RSM in current money] of Highland regiments wearing the crown rank badge but also with a horizontal braid as an officer look-alike, in line with the officer tunic design.

I will see if I can find an illustration.

 

Is the braid seen in other(English/Welsh) line regiments? 

Have you seen a single white/(possible blue) band in place of officer pip to denote officer in training during the great war? 

 So many questions for the fish nor fowl men. 

 

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Iainmac,

 

Welcome to the GWF.

That second photo is of extraordinary clarity and shading compared to the first.

Has it been enhanced?

 

Regards,

JMB

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13 hours ago, iainmac said:

1301019041_Murdosep.jpg.c6a7f717428a1ba08aa076ec4f5ee251.jpg

 
 

 

Fritz backf (2).jpg

Edited by Jools mckenna
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11 hours ago, Jools mckenna said:

 

Fritz backf (2).jpg

 

The upper three chevrons should be blue - it's only the orthochromatic film process that makes them look white:

 

Image result for overseas service chevrons

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I think it might be useful to know your great uncle's name (and if possible, unit). It looks as if he was commissioned from the ranks late in the war, having served overseas since 1914.

RM

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35 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

The upper three chevrons should be blue - it's only the orthochromatic film process that makes them look white:

 

Image result for overseas service chevrons

I know but when I tried making it blue it didn't work very well. You can see a slight blue hint, if you look closely.

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16 hours ago, Scalyback said:

 

Is the braid seen in other(English/Welsh) line regiments? 

Have you seen a single white/(possible blue) band in place of officer pip to denote officer in training during the great war? 

 So many questions for the fish nor fowl men. 

 

 

Not seen by me on other than Highland.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

 

Not seen by me on other than Highland.

 

 

 

Thank you. I wonder what pushed the Scottish only to follow this distinction. 

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He looks to me like a Cameron Highlander. The band on his shoulder strap denotes a Salonika division. If he is CH then this would make him 2nd Battalion in the 27th Division (or just possibly a dismounted Lovat Scout up to June 1918).

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57 minutes ago, wainfleet said:

The band on his shoulder strap denotes a Salonika division.

Hi Wainfleet, I have an interest in Salonika, so could you elaborate on why the shoulder strap links the man with Salonika?

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Hello GB, the divisions of the Salonika force were distinguished by coloured strips on their shoulder straps. The 10th, 22nd, 26th, 27th and 28th Divisions wore strips of green, black, blue, buff or yellow and red material respectively. The 60th Division doesn't seem to have used this scheme despite being the other infantry division of this force.

 

My only slight doubt re this photo is why it shows the strip as light-coloured when yellow usually shows dark on photos of the time, but if the colour is buff then this might account for it. Or I might have got the cap badge wrong.

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He looks like a Cameron Highlander to me too.

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On 27/03/2019 at 14:49, munce said:

It looks like 4 chevrons (including the 1914 one at the bottome), especially in the second photo. Probably started the war in the ranks?

Agree, can see a 1914 chevron too. 

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On 29/03/2019 at 16:21, wainfleet said:

The 60th Division doesn't seem to have used this scheme despite being the other infantry division of this force

 

Hi Wainfleet,

Thank you for the clarification the 60th Division patch was I think a white bee on a black background, whereas all the others as you say were a simple colour stripe. 

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On 28/03/2019 at 19:52, Scalyback said:

 

Thank you. I wonder what pushed the Scottish only to follow this distinction. 

 

It follows the shape of the gauntlet cuff of Scottish service dress (still made for officers in that fashion)

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