Reports wanting for Capt A B Cook, 57 Sqn Aug-Nov 1917

[Errol Martyn]

I’m presently working on draft bio details for Captain Alfred Burton Cook who was killed flying with 57 Sqn on 20 Nov 17. He is one of the very few Kiwi’s for whom I have no copies of TNA documents, as I was unaware of him during my visits to the TNA during 1979-1994 (in the time of wages!). I’m wondering if anyone might have copied any of the follow during their own research there. These are the events concerned:

[1]

Combat in the Air Report: DH.4 A7561 with Second Lieutenant R. N. Bullock as observer shot down an ‘Albatros’, 18 Aug 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File)

[2]

Aeroplane Casualty form: DH.4 A7567 with Second Lieutenant R. N. Bullock as observer on 0950 raid against Ledeghem Dump had controls shot away and was wrecked in a forced landing. Bullock was wounded, 20 Aug 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File & Henshaw)

[3]

Combat in the Air Report: DH.4 A7561 with Lieutenant E. Druge as observer , at 1105 sent down out of control an ‘Albatros D’, 8 Nov 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File & Henshaw)

[4]

Any reports about his being killed in flying accident at 10.50 at Boisdinghem, 20 Nov 1917 (Longuenesse (St Omer) Souvenir Cemetery, Pas de Calais, France)

TIA,

Errol

[fetubi]

I'll have a look for you Errol.

Hope I can help.

Trevor

 

[pjwmacro]

Errol

 

20 Nov 17 Casualty Report: http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/cook-a.b.-alfred-burton

 

Wounded 27 Oct 17 http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/cook-a.b  Note his death incident cas card also on this page.

 

Incident cas card for Bullock for 20 Aug 17: http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/bullock-r.n No details of a/c (less type) or pilot. Pers cas card for same incident: http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000238755-bullock-r.n

 

It's possible that he appears in this photo - believed taken at some stage in Nov 17: (a cross check of the change of command date might narrow that down): 

 

 

[Errol Martyn]

pjwmacro,

Thanks but I have already reviewed those images. What I am seeking are TNA documents.

Your photo may well include A B Cook - I wonder if that might be him on the extreme right in the front row. He was a tall man, 5' 11" and, on enlistment with the Scottish Horse Regiment in 1914 weighed 168 lb.

Unfortunalely, the only photos I have of him are very poor copies of photocopies.

If you should secure a better quality image of the Nov 1917 photo I would like to see it in due course.

Cheers,

Errol

[pjwmacro]

8 hours ago, Errol Martyn said:

What I am seeking are TNA documents.

Errol

 

Apologies - I misunderstood when you said casualty reports. I`m not due to visit TNA or a while - but I`ll certainly look out when I next go. Do you have TNA references?

 

8 hours ago, Errol Martyn said:

I wonder if that might be him on the extreme right in the front row

Right of the row or right as one looks at the photo? We think my grandfather (2/Lt WC Venmore) is the man on the extreme right (looking at the photo) of the 2nd row (1st standing row). More than happy to let you have a better copy if I can get one- I believe that the original (or at least an original copy) hangs with the current 57 Sqn. I have asked for a proper scan. And also asked if they have any record of the names.

 

Regards, Paul

[pjwmacro]

Errol

 

Air of authority - http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Pattinson.htm gives the date of Lawrence Pattinson's return to home establishment, from command of 57 Sqn, as 4 Nov 17. Which would suggest that Alfred Cook is almost certainly in the photo.

 

Regards, Paul

Edited 3 April , 2019 by pjwmacro
spelling

[Errol Martyn]

Paul (& Trevor?),

 

With a bit of detective work I've come up with the TNA file references that most likely relate to my request detailed in post #1:

 

[1]

Combat in the Air Report: DH.4 A7561 with Second Lieutenant R. N. Bullock as observer shot down an ‘Albatros’, 18 Aug 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File)

& [3]

Combat in the Air Report: DH.4 A7561 with Lieutenant E. Druge as observer , at 1105 sent down out of control an ‘Albatros D’, 8 Nov 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File & Henshaw)

AIR 1/1224/204/5/2634

Combat reports: 57 Squadron

1917 Mar-1918 Oct

 

[2]

Aeroplane Casualty form: DH.4 A7567 with Second Lieutenant R. N. Bullock as observer on 0950 raid against Ledeghem Dump had controls shot away and was wrecked in a forced landing. Bullock was wounded, 20 Aug 17 (D.H.4/D.H.9 File & Henshaw)

AIR 1/822/204/5/33part2

Miscellaneous reports of aeroplane casualties.

1917 Jan-Oct

 

 

[4]

Any reports about his being killed in flying accident at 10.50 at Boisdinghem, 20 Nov 1917 (Longuenesse (St Omer) Souvenir Cemetery, Pas de Calais, France)

AIR 1/852/204/5/396

Reports on aeroplane and personnel casualties.

1917 Nov. 17/30

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance offered.

Cheers,

Errol

 

 

Edited 1 April , 2019 by Errol Martyn

[fetubi]

Hi Errol,  I've got three AIR1 documents for you -

a) That 18 August 1917 combat is not supported by a Combat Report in the 57 Sqn Combats in the Air folder - there is one that day, but submitted by another crew (in A7563).  There's also no gap in the official sheet numbering, so you have to discount that, in my view.

b) There is a Combat Report for Cook and Drudge for the 8th November - but note, they were flying A7422 on a Photography Op.  I have this.

c) There is a Casualty Report for Cook and Bullock being shot up on the 20th August, in A7567.  I have a copy of this too.

d) There appears to be no Casualty Report for their deaths on 20 November 1917, but a detailed entry is provided in AIR1/968, and I also have a copy of this.

 

Have you got my latest edition! Details of that fatal crash are in the Addendum.

 

How would you like me to get these sheets to you?

 

Regards,

 

Trevor

 

[topgun1918]

RFC Communique number 102, for 18 August 1917, gives:

 

When returning from a bomb raid six DH4s of 57 Squadron engaged 15 EA scouts.  Fighting was very severe and one EA was destroyed by 2nd Lt Cooks & Bullock.

 

The other claim that I have on this date was by Lieut A T Drinkwater & Lieut Frank Tremar Sibly Menendez in A2138, an Albatros Scout out of control over Courtrai.

 

I have it that A7563 was shot up on 17 August when flown by Maj Ernest Graham Joy & Lieut Forde Leathley, who claimed four Albatros Scouts out of control (three by Leathley), bullets hitting the radiator, resulting in the engine seizing -  RFC Communique number 102 mentions these claims on this date.  After being reconstructed at 2 AD, it went to No 25 Squadron in March 1918 and was missing on 21 April.

 

Graeme

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 April , 2019 by topgun1918

[pjwmacro]

On 01/04/2019 at 11:39, Errol Martyn said:

Paul (& Trevor?),

 

With a bit of detective work I've come up with the TNA file references that most likely relate to my request detailed in post #1:

Errol

I think Trevor has given you rather more assistance on this than I am going to be able to. As I said, not due to visit TNA in person at present, but will let you know if I get the chance. Let me know if there is anything then that you`d like me to check. 

Best of luck

Paul

[Errol Martyn]

20 hours ago, fetubi said:

Hi Errol,  I've got three AIR1 documents for you -

a) That 18 August 1917 combat is not supported by a Combat Report in the 57 Sqn Combats in the Air folder - there is one that day, but submitted by another crew (in A7563).  There's also no gap in the official sheet numbering, so you have to discount that, in my view.

b) There is a Combat Report for Cook and Drudge for the 8th November - but note, they were flying A7422 on a Photography Op.  I have this.

c) There is a Casualty Report for Cook and Bullock being shot up on the 20th August, in A7567.  I have a copy of this too.

d) There appears to be no Casualty Report for their deaths on 20 November 1917, but a detailed entry is provided in AIR1/968, and I also have a copy of this.

 

Have you got my latest edition! Details of that fatal crash are in the Addendum.

 

How would you like me to get these sheets to you?

 

Regards,

 

Trevor

 

Many thanks Trevor,

Best if you could email the copies to me at errol.martyn@xtra.co.nz

Yes, I do have a copy of your latest edition (unless you have since published a third one!).

Cheers,

Errol

[Errol Martyn]

15 hours ago, topgun1918 said:

RFC Communique number 102, for 18 August 1917, gives:

 

When returning from a bomb raid six DH4s of 57 Squadron engaged 15 EA scouts.  Fighting was very severe and one EA was destroyed by 2nd Lt Cooks & Bullock.

 

The other claim that I have on this date was by Lieut A T Drinkwater & Lieut Frank Tremar Sibly Menendez in A2138, an Albatros Scout out of control over Courtrai.

 

I have it that A7563 was shot up on 17 August when flown by Maj Ernest Graham Joy & Lieut Forde Leathley, who claimed four Albatros Scouts out of control (three by Leathley), bullets hitting the radiator, resulting in the engine seizing -  RFC Communique number 102 mentions these claims on this date.  After being reconstructed at 2 AD, it went to No 25 Squadron in March 1918 and was missing on 21 April.

 

Graeme

 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks Graeme,

In light of Trevor's comments about 18 Aug 17 it would appear that the relevant combat report never made it into the AIR1 files, either that or the Communique is in error?

Cheers,

Errol

[topgun1918]

Hi Errol

 

Both are possibilities.  Whatever document I had that might have proved useful was presumably one that was 'reduced to produce' by a leaking water tank at our first house and checking my scribbles, I note that the DH4/DH9 File has a similar entry, so nothing more to add from that source.  Another entry on my 'anomalies to resolve list' - when I retire, I'm going to have a full-time job!

 

Graeme

 

[Grid]

Hi Errol,

 

I don't have the the 18 August 1917 CITA report but did find this. Have sent through to you via email the rest of the file.

 

Best,

 

Adam

[Errol Martyn]

Thanks Adam,

 

Cheers,

Errol