Piper42nd Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 In Table II of the Clothing Regulations 1914 it indicates that those wearing the kilt were issued: Frock, canvas Frock, khaki drill Frock, serge Jacket, white Does anyone have pictures of these and know when each would be used? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 (edited) My reading of this would be that: Frock, canvas - would be a work coverall type jacket (see below) Frock, KD - would be the cotton Khaki Drill jacket as worn in tropics Frock, Serge - would be either the standard wool Service Dress jacket or the earlier scarlet serge frock (see below) and the only think I can think of for the Jacket, white might be the short white "shell jacket" - although I was not aware those were still being issued in 1914, or perhaps the white cotton version. (see below) Others may know better (Frogsmile Gordon92 etc) Chris Edited 22 March , 2019 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 23 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2019 Thanks Chris. The pictures fit the descriptions well. I don't think "frock, serge" would mean the SD jacket as the SD was also listed in the table. I left out because I at least knew what that one looked like. Any idea under what circumstances the white frock would have been worn? Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 2 minutes ago, Piper42nd said: Any idea under what circumstances the white frock would have been worn? Harvey Not really. My *guess* would be for dress occasions in the tropics (India etc) as on the lower picture but I am rather outside my area of knowledge. While I have very early wartime photos showing scarlet frocks and doublets in use - I believe they were withdrawn from use in 1914. Were the clothing regulations you cite in the original post published pre war? (That would be my assumption) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 23 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2019 The book was published by the War Office in 1914. I also left out what the table refers to as Tunic. I take that to mean the red Highland doublet which was still issued but only for ceremonial uses in the UK if I understand correctly. So there was a total of 6 frock/jacket/tunic still issued in 1914 though I'm sure not after the war started. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Piper42nd said: In Table II of the Clothing Regulations 1914 it indicates that those wearing the kilt were issued: Frock, canvas Frock, khaki drill Frock, serge Jacket, white Does anyone have pictures of these and know when each would be used? Thanks Chris (4th Gordon’s) is correct with the details that he has given and I can confirm that the ‘jacket white’ refers to the short, shell jacket (i.e. waist length) that was issued only to the Foot Guards, Highlanders and the HLI. It was made of white wool, worn specifically as ‘drill order’ and not issued to other infantry. I’ll post colour images of each garment after the weekend, although I’m not sure if I have one of the frock canvas. The longer white garment was issued only at hot weather stations, until it was replaced in most (but not all) of them with khaki drill (KD). Several suits of such ‘whites’ were issued (usually 3) to facilitate regular laundering and starching, as humidity led to frequent changing throughout a working day. Edited 23 March , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 Lowland not highland, but this is the 1st Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers (purportedly in 1914). Are these the jackets....or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 (edited) They look like shell jackets John. The pipers were often caveated to wear different dress to the rest of the regiment, not least because they wore kilts. I will check my clothing regulations and report back. In general terms though I am confident that only the Highlanders ordinary soldiers wore the white drill jacket. Lowland units wore the Scottish pattern scarlet frock in lieu. Edited 23 March , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 (edited) One needs to look at three categories, two of which are in the vertical columns of the relevant part of Table II. The background to this is the cessation of issue to regular forces of the scarlet frock in 1902/3, although these continued to be worn as an option by auxilliary forces and indeed were issued right up to 1914 as stop gaps. HOME: Frock canvas Jacket service dress ["drab", or mis-named khaki by almost everyone, even then] Jacket white [the short garment unique to Highland etc and Foot Guards for drill purposes] Tunic [scarlet, full dress] STATIONS ABROAD [this excludes India,] Frock canvas Frock khaki drill [and trousers] Frock serge [scarlet, loose fitting] for winter full dress Jacket service dress drab only for stations with cold seasons such as South Africa Jacket white INDIA the British Government of India had financial responsibility and a unique scale of issues including whites [a suit] , KD [a suit], and a scarlet frock winter full dress with Oxford mix trousers. Complicated rules were in force for troops proceeding to India and returning from, such that apparent anomalies can be seen in photographs. Edited 23 March , 2019 by Muerrisch addendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 23 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2019 A minor point but Table II indicates that the "jacket white" was also issued for Stations Abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 23 March , 2019 Share Posted 23 March , 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Piper42nd said: A minor point but Table II indicates that the "jacket white" was also issued for Stations Abroad. Thank you very much: list amended! Edited 23 March , 2019 by Muerrisch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 6 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 03:40, FROGSMILE said: Chris (4th Gordon’s) is correct with the details that he has given and I can confirm that the ‘jacket white’ refers to the short, shell jacket (i.e. waist length) that was issued only to the Foot Guards, Highlanders and the HLI. It was made of white wool, worn specifically as ‘drill order’ and not issued to other infantry. I’ll post colour images of each garment after the weekend, although I’m not sure if I have one of the frock canvas. The longer white garment was issued only at hot weather stations, until it was replaced in most (but not all) of them with khaki drill (KD). Several suits of such ‘whites’ were issued (usually 3) to facilitate regular laundering and starching, as humidity led to frequent changing throughout a working day. You indicated that you would post colour images. Were you able to find them? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 April , 2019 Share Posted 6 April , 2019 47 minutes ago, Piper42nd said: You indicated that you would post colour images. Were you able to find them? Thanks Sorry for delay, I can’t get to them until next week, but I haven’t forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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