Long Service Good Conduct Medal and Meritorious Service Medal

[Tonks55]

My grandfather was a career soldier, (before, during and after WW1) and was awarded both a Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) in 1919 and Long Service Good Conduct (LSGC) medal, presumably 18 years after he enlisted in 1905, therefore in 1923. HOWEVER, I am reading on the internet that 'A recipient who was subsequently awarded the Meritorious Service Medal had to stop wearing the Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal', . Surely, therefore, an LSGC would not be awarded to someone who has already received an MSM? Can anyone shed any light?

 

Thanks for your help, in anticipation.

[Andrew Upton]

4 hours ago, Tonks55 said:

My grandfather was a career soldier, (before, during and after WW1) and was awarded both a Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) in 1919 and Long Service Good Conduct (LSGC) medal, presumably 18 years after he enlisted in 1905, therefore in 1923. HOWEVER, I am reading on the internet that 'A recipient who was subsequently awarded the Meritorious Service Medal had to stop wearing the Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal', . Surely, therefore, an LSGC would not be awarded to someone who has already received an MSM? Can anyone shed any light?

 

Thanks for your help, in anticipation.

 

My 1999 copy of the Medal Yearbook states under the Army MSM - "Until November 1902 holders were not allowed to wear the LSGC as well as the MSM, but thereafter both medals could be worn, the LSGC taking precedence. In 1979, however, the order of precedence was reversed". Given the MSM was awarded for "distinguished or meritorious service" and originally came with an annuity I presume until 1902 good conduct was assumed in the holder of such...

 

Edited 22 March , 2019 by Andrew Upton

[mancpal]

Andrew,

do you know when the MSM Annuity ceased by any chance?

 

Simon

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, mancpal said:

do you know when the MSM Annuity ceased by any chance?

 

Same source - "A sum of £2000 a year was set aside for distribution to recipients in the form of annuities not exceeding £20, paid for life to NCO's of the rank of sergeant and above for distinguished or meritorious service. The number of medals awarded was thus limited by the amount of money available in the annuity fund, so that medals and annuities were only granted on the death of previous recipients or when the fund was increased...

 

Until 1951 the MSM could only be awarded when an annuity became available, but since then it has often been awarded without the annuity, the latter becoming payable as funds permit. Since 1956 recipients must have at least 27 years service to become eligible.

 

What was, in effect, a second type of MSM was introduced in October 1916 when immediate awards for exceptionally valuable and meritorious service was introduced. In January 1917 this was extended to include individual acts of gallantry not in the presence of the enemy. No annuities were paid with the immediate awards which terminated in 1928 with the institution of the Gallantry BEM..."

[Tonks55]

Thanks Andrew - that explains it. I had always assumed that the award of the MSM was for his dedicated service to the Heavy  RGA, as he signed up in 1905, was based in Gibraltar, transferred initially to France in 1914, then transferred to Salonika, where he served until the end of the war, before returning to Gibraltar. Eventually he left the forces in October 1927.

 

I had always assumed the MSM, which was announced in the London Gazette on 30th Jan 1919,  was awarded for his service from 1905 to this date, and not for any specific act of bravery. Is there a citation that goes with the award that explains the reasoning of the award (the Gazette has nothing specific). For your information my grandfather was SM Frederick Brookman (Service No: 23961 later converted to  1402706).  

[mancpal]

Thanks Andrew,

i wasn’t aware an Annuity was ever attached to the MSM.

 

Simon

[Andrew Upton]

This link was posted on Fb, page 340 and onward of the 1899 Queen's Regulations might be of interest:

 

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044080700966;view=1up;seq=351