1/7th Middlesex Regiment, Battles of Ypres and Bullecourt

[JDBW]

Dear Colleagues

 

My brother recently passed away and left me papers and photographs of my father's involvement in WW 1 on the Western Front.

I have steamed off the black album paper and found important identifiers but still trying to have a clear path for his servoce

My father joined at 14 as Volunteer.  I have a photograph of him at a Royal Army Military Corp Health Clinic at Halton Camp Xmas 1916

which is interesting as the RFC assumes that their 1919 shed clinic, replaced by a hospital in 1929, was the first health clinic at Halton, well at least I can see no other reference.

The next photograph is a group photograph of the Officers' Servants 3/10th Battalion Middlesex Regiment

It is a sad photo for he had marked with a lead pencil dot point his colleagues who had been killed and those wounded with is 14/25 killed and 2/25 wounded

writing this some time after Xmas 2017 or early 1918. 

He has marked on the back the date for two who were killed October 1917 and another Xmas 1917  I feel this requires discretion and respect for this fallen and await advice.

Sometime after he had commenced written on the back of the photo he was he himself was also wounded on the wire returning from a reconnaissance mission and eventually sent to hospital in Scotland. The sergeant who rescued him, he later told mother, was killed in an act of spontaneous heroism

It is assumed it was around the area of Ypres, as he has stated to mother that he was wounded at Ypres, and the latest date for the photograph having been taken would be October 2017, due to a date being affixed on the reverse for one of the soldiers that had been killed on that day.  The only other date mentioned for a fatality was Christmas Day 1917.  Father again has placed a X indicating his identity. 

The next photo is him in St George Hospital in Edinburgh in civilians clothes convelescing and he has dated on the back February 1918. so he was wounded between Xmas 1917 and February 1918.  

Another photo just steamed cleaned is him pictured back in military uniform at "Scotton Camp, Catterick, Yorkshire 12th May 1918.  

The final document he left was a photograph of a German town and on the revere it has writtenTaken from ma German Soldier in the attack on Bullecourt 1918 and stated the 102 Battalion.

The final photograph is him with three other soldiers from other battalions awaiting discharged - 1/7th Middlesex Regiment, and dated 1st June 1919.

His discharge Certificate is 29487 1/7th Middlesex EMT 61414 - Victory & British Medals  Role No. RASC/101B203 page 20813.

I have read Arthur Conan Doyle and ascertained that the 1/7 Middlesex captured many prisoners t Bullecourt and the 1/7th Middlesex Regiment joined with the 56th ist London (167th Brigade) under Major-General Charles Hull and were i the thick of right until Armistice. 

The 102nd also merged in the Bullecourt and environs battles somehow.

I am quite an amateur in all these matters and if anyone can give advice perhaps a Service record might explain his movements during 1918 and would his medals be available as they were destroyed in a direct hit of the home in Eastbourne in 1940  

Sadly he was killed in Wales in 1944 and my widowed mother immigrated to Australia in the 1940's.  

Sincerely

John DBW  

 

 

 

 

[clk]

Hi John,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

George Albert Williams has a set of WW1 service papers on Findmypast (linked here). They should also be available on Ancestry. Hopefully, you will be able to map the units and dates shown, against the relevant war diaries. The National Archives search page is here, and the Ancestry page here.

 

There is good advice on how to research a WW1 soldier here.

 

His medal roll record (Ancestry link) notes that he "Re-enlisted R.A.S.C. 29.1.20", so the MoD might have a post war file for him? Do any of the DoBs below match?

 

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

For the time of his wounding [4th/5th October 1917], in addition to the 3/10 Middlesex Regiment, it's also worth looking at the 10 Brigade HQ diary (Ancestry link) as it appears to contain a map. There is help reading map references here.

 

Edited 18 March , 2019 by clk

[JDBW]

CLK Major General

 

I am indebted to your professionalism

 

Your references were immediately relevant and rewarding

 

I notice that his correct Number is 291187 having mistakenly read 29487

 

I shall follow up these leads and indebted for your assistance and what appeared insurmountable has now become achievable

 

JDBW

 

 

[JDBW]

CLK Major General

 

To answer your question yes there was a DoB match - 2/7/1998 - which indicated his service number was 23310 at Item code ADT000679465

 

The date of his re-enlisting is valuable. I knew he served in India and he is pictured as a sergeant at a Regiment Christmas Party in 1925 and he left several group of photos with both British and Indian army personnel. 

 

I notice that returning to the Western Front after his hospitalisation he had one stripe on his sleeve, although he was discharged as Private, but then I am but a novice in these matters

 

I seek you advice on these photos just found and quite willing to share but concerned about him having identified his fallen comrades in his Battalion and whether that is appropriate to convey.

 

Your information on the date of his wounding will now identify the battle in which he fought at Ypres and it indicates that the group photograph he completed indicating the fate of his colleagues can be dated to 1918 at the earliest and possibly post Armistice. 

 

Indebted

 

JDBW

[Michelle Young]

JDBW, you mention a stripe on his sleeve. Is this shown on the photo? If so, is the stripe a thin vertical stripe on the felt sleev above the wrist? If that is the case, it is a wound stripe. 

And regards posting the photo, we get a lot of people asking if there is a photo of a relative who was killed, the family don't have one. Perhaps by posting the photo, you may help someone? 

Michelle 

[clk]

Hi John,

 

21 hours ago, JDBW said:

To answer your question yes there was a DoB match - 2/7/1998 - which indicated his service number was 23310 at Item code ADT000679465

 

That being the case, the MoD may still have a separate post WW1 file for George. What I posted was extracted from an index of men they published, who were born before 1901 and had service after the early 1920s. Unfortunately, the files are not available to download online. However, if you were to take the gamble that it is the same person, then you could get a copy of it (albeit probably heavily weeded over the years) for £30. There is advice on how to go about it here. Contrary to what it says, I understand that as George was born over 110 years ago, there wouldn't be a need to submit a death certificate with an application. There is a helpdesk phone number here.

 

In his WW1 file, his 'Statement as to Disability' shows:

Image source: Findmypast.

 

Whilst the file indicates that he was transferred from the 3/10th Bn to the 7th Reserve Battalion (i.e. at that time the UK based 2/7th Bn, formerly the 3/7 Bn) it doesn't appear to say when he physically joined the 1/7th Bn. My guess would be shortly after he returned to France on 10th July 1918. The writing against that date appears to read "...Infantry to Dec/18 & clerk since". I wonder if that reflects higher on the same page...

 

Image source: Findmypast.

 

...where 'Base APD' might be Base Army Pay Department?

 

In handwriting at the top of the form 'Disemb[odied] 17 6/19' appears. Disembodied is a term used for when men were discharged from the Territorial Force. However, his Silver War Badge record (Ancestry link) says that he was discharged from the 18th (Service) Battalion on 15th July 1919. The structure of the Middlesex Regiment can be seen here.

 

On his 'Casualty Form - Active Service' it shows...

 

Image source: Findmypast.

 

10 FA = 10th Field Ambulance

14 CMDS = 14th Corps Main Dressing Station

47 CCS = 47th Casualty Clearing Station

83 Gen Hos = 83rd General Hospital

 

There is some information on the casualty evacuation chain on the Long, Long Trail - see here.

 

As an aside, on the Forum a persons 'rank' is automatically progressed higher according to the number of posts that they have made, and doesn't reflect any real life service.

 

Regards

Chris 

 

Edit:

The war diary for the Assistant Director Medical Services (4 Division) shows medical arrangements dated 23rd September 1917 (Ancestry link). It says that the Corps Main Dressing Station was at 'Canada Farm' - map reference: sheet 28, A.18.a.1.7. This link should open up on a map from June 1917 with square A.18 in the centre, and allows a blended view with the modern landscape. The diary also shows the further forward arrangements - advance dressing station, bearer relay posts, etc., and maps showing where they were. 

 

10 Field Ambulance, 47 CCS, and 83 General Hospital do have individual war diaries, but the entries are very highly unlikely to mention George by name, as they only tend to record an overall daily count of admissions and discharges. Without getting them, the locations of the CCS and hospital can be seen via the links associated with the link above relating to the evacuation chain.

 

 

 

Edited 19 March , 2019 by clk

[JDBW]

Major General

CLK

 

Unbelievable material.

 

It is like an archaeological dig providing tangible priceless information

 

Greatly indebted

 

JDBW

 __________

 

Lieut General 

Michelle Young

 

Thank you for your perceptive comment. 

 

I  have attached the photograph taken at Scotton Camp Catterick Yorkshire 12th May 1918 after leaving St George Hospital Scotland about to return to the Western Front and following your suggestion to share photos I have attached relevant photographs.  Using an iPhone light one can detect the casualties identified in the 3/10th Brigade of the Middlesex Regiment - 68 percent, probably identified after Armistice 

 

JDBW

Bowral

Australia

[JDBW]

 

Lieut General 

Michelle Young

I noticed that the one stripe V has gone and there is the vertical stripe which you mentioned.

I have attached the obverse which identifies the five men about to be discharged,  

From the blown up writing of my father's hand he has identified the four soldiers which might be of value to other descendants and historians

"Left to right

Cpt. Jenkins AM

Pte W'm Hudson. South Lancet Regt

Pte Bicknell APC transferred from London Rifle Brigade

Pte G. A. Williams 1.7th Middlesex Regt.

Pte Shorley. APC transferred from Infantry

Sunday. 1/6/19

XXX (Too blurred)

XXX (Too blurred)"

 

On the Hospital photograph with the three patients recovering, all using canes, the obverse reads:

 

"Edinburgh

Feb/1918

St George HOSPITAL"

 

This ties in with the Statement of Disability provided by Major General CLK in which my father has mentioned St George Hospital in Edinburgh and the dates for his hospitalisation. To know he returned to the Western Front, as so many injured did, to be engaged in battle right until the Armistice in a humbling acknowledgement.

 

I cannot express more strongly my appreciation to you professional military personnel and Service people.

 

My parent's home in Eastbourne was a direct hit in 1940 due to Luftwaffe retaliation for Eastbourne's part in the Dunkirk small vessel rescue and they evacuated to Newport, Wales where I was born.  After the War my father re-enlisted and served in the British Army in India for 5-6 years.  He spoke fluent German and all the Scandinavian languages and travelled through South Wales towns and villages as the Promotion Manager for the South Wales Argus on his Triumph sidecar motor cycle and was found lying on the middle of the road outside a Welsh village by the local doctor and died in hospital.  Very strange circumstances and as Nazism was rife within Welsh Nationalism at that time and the monarchy also possibly compromised through the abdicated king's allegiances, there is a 100 year embargo on all Welsh records, (not England, Scotland nor Ireland) and my son will have to wait and see whether his grandfather continued his association with the military, having later had a military career, in some possible covert manner. Due to the the social mindset at that time a widow with three children was an economic liability and the three children were placed in orphanages.  My mother did try support from the family in London to no avail so we returned to Wales and I vividly recall an actual extensive bombing raid as we raced in a London Taxi with incendiary bombs fallen nearby to the safety of an underground Railway Station which was also a bomb shelter. After the War my mother immigrated with her children to Australia and we spent another 4 years in orphanages before the heavens opened and we commenced living as a family.

 

I say all this because I did not know my father, being 2 1/2 at the time, and information was limited and to me elusive, but now you have opened the door to trace his footsteps and as a child having no father, with 10 years in orphanages, you would understand my considered satisfaction and deep appreciation for your assistance in enabling the circle to be once again enjoined.

 

JDBW 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michelle Young]

The v stripe is a good conduct stripe. Does the top photo in post 8 predate the photo in post 7? 

You refer to us as military  personnel and service people. Undoubtedly some of the members are, but the rank is indicative of how many posts we have individually made, not anything other. The more posts, the higher the rank. 

 

Regards Michelle 

[JDBW]

Michelle

The chronological order of the photos as as follows:

The photo in #7 was a photo taken on the 12th May 1918 upon return from hospital In Scotland awaiting to ship back to return to France .

It was sent out of context to responded to your comment on arm signia

The following photo was at a Xmas party 1916 at Haltham Camp in Birkinghamshire

The following group Photo of the 3/10  Middledex Regiment was dated approximately second half 1917 prior to his injury by bullet to leg

The following German postcard dates to Sept 1918 presumably around Bullecourt

The following photo of five soldiers awaiting discharge is taken 1/6/19

The final photo is taken in Feb 2018 at a hospital in Scotland confirmed now by data supplied on this forum 

These dates seem to agree with the record information directed to by CLK

Sincerely

JDBW