German Ace Paul Achillies

[LDT006]

2 hours ago, pat.58 said:

It is said that Sparkes and Iliff went down west of Torhout, while Scroggie and Sorley went down south-east of Ostend. Is it possible that this isn't right, as Sorley was buried at Wijnendale (place which is west of Torhout)?

 

 

Those locations should be taken with a grain of salt and depends on the source.

Wijnendale is just to the NW of Torhout but also SE of Ostend, so both are correct.

 

Iliff was reported missing on 25 Sep 1918 "when patrol attacked 7 Fokkers 3ml W of Thourout on HOP" but, there is a German claim from Ltn.d.R. Piechulek at Kortemark (SW of Torhout).

Then there is a card for Iliff at ICRC wich says "killed at Gits", this is south of Torhout:

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0046/C_G1_E_15_01_0046_3236_0.JPG/

 

The above would indicate that Scroggie and Sorley were shot down to the north of Torhout and Sparkes and Iliff to the SW.

 

There was a grave (1220) at Marckhove with the correct date and location that could be the one of Iliff:

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc2226305.JPG

There is also an exhumation report for that grave:

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc2226281.JPG

I have ordered copies of the officer files for Iliff and Scroggie but the height doesn't match, both are 3 inches off.

 

More German information is the only thing that can solve this case, I have emailed the VDK at Germany but they can't or won't help.

 

Luc.

[Bennett]

OP here. Hopefully I have up loaded PDF file sent to me by CWGC concerning RAF unknown burials in German War cemeteries that might possibly contribute to above discussions.  Thanks  Ralph 

Recoveries 20.K. (1).pdf

[LDT006]

Hi Ralph,

 

from who did you get this?

It looks that there might be some mistakes in that document or they have more information than the documents on their website:

There is nothing in the CWGC documents for Larch Wood 4A5 that indicates RAF/RFC:

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc2226304.JPG

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc2226276.JPG

Same for Harlebeke 11B15 and 11B16:

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc1816300.JPG

http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc1816029.JPG

I would be very interested to know if these are RFC/RAF or not, could you contact them?

 

Several other unknowns on that list have been identified and a report submitted.

 

Regards,

Luc.

 

Edited 16 April , 2019 by LDT006

[Bennett]

Luc,

 

        I received the information from Roy Hemington, Records Div. CWGC in response to a request from me.  I am having trouble accessing GWF messages on my computer. The message may clarify little and raise more questions than it answers  Thanks  Ralph

[Bennett]

Luc,

        This is the text of CWGC e-mail to me regarding your question, which I meant to include.  Ralph

 

    Dear Mr. Bennett,

Thank you for your email.  Based on the information you have supplied we have produced a report on recoveries made from trench map square 20.K.  As you will see this, contains reference to several unknowns recovered from German cemeteries in the area.  Hopefully, you might be able to find further details of these in local or German records.

Yours sincerely
 

Roy Hemington
Records Data Manager

[LDT006]

Ralf,

 

your first message gave the impression that the table was only for RFC/RAF burials.

The table being split over 4 pages was confusing as well.

The email from CWGC states: "recoveries made from trench map square 20.K", this also implies that there were no field graves found meaning that the Germans buried all crashed airman in their cemeteries even at the end of the war.

 

Luc.

[Bennett]

Luc,

        Agreed & sorry re the confusion.. Your knowledge base is way way ahead of mine, plus your location. Perhaps follow up with CWGC etc. ?

 

I think this information indicates that 2/Lt. Iliff was buried as an unknow grave in one of the German military cemeteries mentioned in your research. Realizing there will likely never be a clear answer, can I ask your guess at this point, about a location of a grave for Iliff.  Again, thanks for all your input and please let me know  of any progress in your research   Ralph

[john-g]

I am afraid that after checking my records on 66 Squadron and of the 248 Officers who served with the squadron, and also for a record of this Officer that I cannot find a Thomas Warburton who served with 66 Squadron and that Camel C66 did not serve with the squadron either?

 

john-g

 

 

[topgun1918]

Camel C66 went, initially, to No 213 Squadron and after crashing and being repaired, fetched up with No 204 Squadron; Warburton was a member of this latter squadron and was lost with C66 on 24 September 1918, 'last seen 5 miles south-east of Dixmude on HOP'.

 

Graeme