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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

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Fiona537382)3

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Hey, 

 

just wondering if you can help me identify these markings and what they mean. 

 

My my dad has had the bayonet for years and we’ve never known the history etc. 

 

Any help would be great ! 

image.jpg

image.jpg

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An American made P13 bayonet by Remington to suit the P14 rifle, dated July 1917.  The wooden

grips should have 2 grooves, to distinguish it from the P1907 bayonet.  The crowned 'A'  is an

inspectors mark.

 

Mike.

Edited by MikeyH
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Hi Fiona***,

 

Welcome to GWF!

 

MikeyH is spot on there - just a minor addition if I may that the 'A' indicates not only was it made in the USA, but it was inspected there and approved for service also by a British inspector. These were used often by the Home Guard ('Dad's Army'), and so if a relative served with them, that's where it could have come from!

 

Trajan

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The 1913 is the Pattern number, marking the year of its official approval, and well spotted on that '6' is June - MikeyH will now ceremonously hang his head in shame (as should I also)!

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That's for 1917!

 

The pattern or model number - in this case 1913 - is when that particular type of bayonet was officially adopted for service use and started to be made. The 6 17 for June 1917 indicates when this particular one, the one you have, was approved for issue to the army for fitting to (confusingly!) the P(attern) 1914 rifle. Many of these P(attern).1913 bayonets were made in the USA, most by Remington, and then the USA started to make their own version, the M(odel) 1917 for their own use.

 

No P.1913 bayonets are certainly known to have been used in the front line in WW1. But they were used by the Home Guard in WW2.

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A German bayonet, an S.98, made between 1898-1914. This one probably later than earlier, used by the German army up to about 1915. A few were used later, but not many.

 

It should have marks on the blade and on the top of the blade next to the handle. DON'T overclean it to see these as that will destroy the value of the bayonet. Post a better photograph of the marks if you can.

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30 minutes ago, trajan said:

... just a minor addition if I may that the 'A' indicates not only was it made in the USA, but it was inspected there and approved for service also by a British inspector.

 

 

The stamp is actually two stamps. There is a crown over the letters US over the letter A. This is inspection stamp number S A 33 which indicates  "Rifles, bayonets, &c, made, examined and passed in America". On top of the crown is overstamped the pheon (broad arrow) acceptance mark for British service.

 

 

265

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32 minutes ago, Fiona537382)3 said:

That’s great info !! 

 

What does the 1913 stand for if it’s 1917? Also the 6 if it’s July? 

 

Oooops!

 

Mike.

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Nice lunch was it Mike? Too late to have been a coffee / tea shortage! :thumbsup:

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1 hour ago, 14276265 said:

 

The stamp is actually two stamps. There is a crown over the letters US over the letter A. This is inspection stamp number S A 33 which indicates  "Rifles, bayonets, &c, made, examined and passed in America". On top of the crown is overstamped the pheon (broad arrow) acceptance mark for British service.

 

 

265

 

I would argue that the stamp is  actually crown / D6 / A, but that doesn't change your conclusion.

 

Regards,

JMB

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1 hour ago, trajan said:

A German bayonet, an S.98, made between 1898-1914. This one probably later than earlier, used by the German army up to about 1915. A few were used later, but not many.

 

It should have marks on the blade and on the top of the blade next to the handle. DON'T overclean it to see these as that will destroy the value of the bayonet. Post a better photograph of the marks if you can

 

 

There are literally no markings on here at all of which I can see...

image.jpg

image.jpg

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7 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

 

I would argue that the stamp is  actually crown / D6 / A, but that doesn't change your conclusion.

 

 

At first glance I thought DS/A, but on checking List of Stamps, US/A? - with the appearance of a D due to the edge of the bunter used. Expanding the image seems to show the definite bottom curve of a U, but maybe an illusion. Attached is the line from the List.

 

 

265

 

 

 

S A 33.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by 14276265
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They will be there but it will need careful cleaning to find and read them.

 

Your exampls  has two-piece grips, i.e., the hilt has two pieces of wood on either side, which indicates it was made after 1902.

 

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2 hours ago, trajan said:

Nice lunch was it Mike? Too late to have been a coffee / tea shortage! :thumbsup:

Julian,

Rushing to take dog for walkies, in between showers of hailstones!

 

Mike.

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20 hours ago, MikeyH said:

Julian,

Rushing to take dog for walkies, in between showers of hailstones!

 

Mike.

 

You are forgiven... Bright sunshine here when I took the boys for walkies!

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On 17/03/2019 at 11:46, 14276265 said:

 

At first glance I thought DS/A, but on checking List of Stamps, US/A? - with the appearance of a D due to the edge of the bunter used. Expanding the image seems to show the definite bottom curve of a U, but maybe an illusion. Attached is the line from the List.

 

 

265

 

 

 

S A 33.jpg

 

 

 

Hello 265,

”Rifles, Bayonets, &c made......in America “ must refer to Rifles and etc, because I have never seen this stamp on a Remington/ Winchester bayonet made under contract to the UK, so this is a new one for me!

As a matter of interest, from which source document is that taken?

Regards,

JMB

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JMB,

 

The document is List of Stamps used by the Department of Inspection of Munitions, a bulletin produced by the Ministry.

 

 

 

265

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