Possible trench weapon or horse dispatcher?

[Lincspoacher]

Hello all just acquired this at auction with the family lore from the seller that this hammer was used by a troop sergeant to dispatch wounded horses? The overall length of this item is 15  inches, the pick side is 3 inches long and the hammer is 2.5 inches with a face of 1 inch square. The head seems to have a maker or unit stamp impressed and it is mounted on a hardwood shaft with an groove for a wrist strap? I have a little knowledge of horse so I doubt the old story but it seems handy as a trench weapon? 

[Gunner Bailey]

Looks like an old roofing hammer. The pointed end was used to make holes in slates.

[GWF1967]

Seconded.

Slaters hammer. 

 

[Scalyback]

Thought it was the farriers job to finish a horse off not a NCO that would have other duties to perform? 

[GWF1967]

2 minutes ago, Scalyback said:

Thought it was the farriers job to finish a horse off not a NCO that would have other duties to perform? 

I've read accounts of officers dispatching injured horses with their sidearm. 

 You'd need a much more substantial tool than the one shown in the op to dispatch a horse. 

[Scalyback]

2 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

I've read accounts of officers dispatching injured horses with their sidearm. 

 You'd need a much more substantial tool than the one shown in the op to dispatch a horse. 

 

.38 to a brain will stop most things! Farriers' axe in the great war or already ceremonial?

[Dave1418]

Hi

With a .38 from a pistol even up close is nowhere as effective as a .455 from a Webley which would provide far more cavitation and disrupt the medulla even if you didn't hit it.

Regards  

[Scalyback]

3 minutes ago, Dave1418 said:

Hi

With a .38 from a pistol even up close is nowhere as effective as a .455 from a Webley which would provide far more cavitation and disrupt the medulla even if you didn't hit it.

Regards  

 

I stay away from 'orses! 

 

Looking at it a general issue military hammer. Just checked we carried one in the troop for smacking stubborn things(but not 'orses!). If used for despatching a horse I think it was in extremes. It looks like its been in a workshop looking at the shaft and strike areas. 

[Gunner Bailey]

36 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

 

 You'd need a much more substantial tool than the one shown in the op to dispatch a horse. 

 

Correct. The shaft is quite thin as a slater does not use these with great force. The tile is placed on a pad attached to the slater's thigh and the point gently makes the whole after a light tap. The nails hit are also short and light and only need to be driven in an inch.

 

So I doubt if this hammer could kill a horse without the shaft breaking.

[Lincspoacher]

Thank  you all for the ideas, I doubted the horse theory straight away but thought the handle was too long for a practical tool and it has the look of being buffed back to metal at the tips recently. The pick side seems to have been ground down to make a point and I have just been looking at the entrenching tool as a possible source to create this fighting hammer? Or of course repurposed and weaponised?

 

[Dave66]

I agree with gunner, wouldn't have thought this hammer capable of humanely dispatching a horse, field service pocket book 1914 has these instructions.

Dave.

[Lincspoacher]

Yes seems the army had a regulation method of this sad duty too. Now suspect it was used as a weapon if the old war story got lost over time. Does the makers stamp look familiar to anyone?

[Scalyback]

3 hours ago, Dave66 said:

I agree with gunner, wouldn't have thought this hammer capable of humanely dispatching a horse, field service pocket book 1914 has these instructions.

Dave.

 

Just out  of curiosity what would  a rifle do at point blank. 

I've shot a pheasant with 7.62 at 300 yards and noting left! Teach it to land in front of my target.

[Gunner Bailey]

It would be very messy and endanger anyone behind the horse. That's why a pistol is recommended. 

[museumtom]

It could even be a chipping hammer used by welders.

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, museumtom said:

It could even be a chipping hammer used by welders.

Ah yes, man with Landrover. 

 Welders hammers usually have a narrow edged head rather than flat. 

[museumtom]

As a welder it would do me just fine I tells ya!

[museumtom]

It does look like the pointed end done has been done recently on benchgrinder.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I don't think it'a a welding chipping hammer, don't they tend to have two chisel edges, set at 90°?

And I don't think it's a slaters hammer either, their spikes tend to be longer and thinner.

Something in metalworking I'd say.

[Lincspoacher]

I can concur with museumtom that the ends of this tool have been recently cleaned of their old patina and that the pick side seems to have been ground down to it's current shape that's why when I saw pictures of entrenching tools I  wondered if it had been reworked into something like this French one?

[MikB]

23 hours ago, Scalyback said:

 

Just out  of curiosity what would  a rifle do at point blank. 

I've shot a pheasant with 7.62 at 300 yards and noting left! Teach it to land in front of my target.

I'd think you were using something other than normal target bullets for that to happen in 7,62.

 

303s proved themselves capable of killing big cats at short range quickly and certainly enough for hunters to use them without much anxiety. Some of this may have been due to the rearward centre of gravity which caused the bullet to carry out a snap turnover under sharp deceleration. I think it would have been quite suitable providing, as Gunner Bailey pointed out, you made sure there was no risk of the trajectory intersecting somebody else if it exited the horse.

Edited 9 March , 2019 by MikB

[Dave66]

Very similar, yours is just much older version..well used and as said before recently ground.

Ive seen many sellers over the years try to make a Great War connection with the most basic items purely for financial gain, in reality, I suppose we will never know sadly.

 

Dave.

[Radlad]

On ‎08‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 19:57, Lincspoacher said:

Thank  you all for the ideas, I doubted the horse theory straight away but thought the handle was too long for a practical tool and it has the look of being buffed back to metal at the tips recently. The pick side seems to have been ground down to make a point and I have just been looking at the entrenching tool as a possible source to create this fighting hammer? Or of course repurposed and weaponised?

 

 

It's a Sprig or pin hammer that has been ground on the small face, Originally used by plumbers/Glaziers, picture framers and cobblers amongst other trades

[Dave1418]

17 hours ago, MikB said:

I'd think you were using something other than normal target bullets for that to happen in 7,62.

 

303s proved themselves capable of killing big cats at short range quickly and certainly enough for hunters to use them without much anxiety. Some of this may have been due to the rearward centre of gravity which caused the bullet to carry out a snap turnover under sharp deceleration. I think it would have been quite suitable providing, as Gunner Bailey pointed out, you made sure there was no risk of the trajectory intersecting somebody else if it exited the horse.

Hi

The cavitation caused by a .308 is around 3”-4”, so more than enough to obliterate a pheasant. Most big game theses days is seldom dispatched with .308 as .375 or .458 is far better but it’s also generally done at much closer distances over express sights 

regards

[Gunner Bailey]

6 hours ago, Radlad said:

 

It's a Sprig or pin hammer that has been ground on the small face, Originally used by plumbers/Glaziers, picture framers and cobblers amongst other trades

 

I think it's too big for that.