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rolt968

Why a Seven Shot Competition?

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rolt968

One of the men I am researching was obviously a considerable shot as a civilian. He won prizes at a number of competitions.

In 1912 he won a prize at a local competition which was originally set up by/for the local Volunteers. The competition was for miniature rifle, 25 yards, 7 shots.

 

Can anyone suggest why seven shots? (Not six, ten...)

 

RM

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CountryJohn
Posted (edited)

Not saying I understand why, but there does seem to be an honourable tradition of seven-shot shooting competitions.  E.g. HM The Queen's Prize of the Great Britain Rifle Team, dating back to 1860 (see under 'Match Conditions') : -

 

https://www.gbrt.org.uk/individual-competitions/h-m-the-queens-prize/

 

CJ

Edited by CountryJohn
Two typos!

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Gunner Bailey

In a country that invented a game that scores 15, 30, 40, Deuce anything is possible.

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MikeyH

My son and I used to shoot for an air rifle team in a local league.

Seem to recall that seven shots each was the norm.  This in the 1980's.

 

Mike.

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MikB

It might've been 2 convertible sighters and 5 to count - though the concept of the convertible sighter's more usual in fullbore. In that system you get 2 shots that don't have to count, to allow you to set your sights up - but if you get high scores you can declare the second or both as 'counters'.

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Dave1418

The first shot and possibly the second will always be cold and will have a different point of impact than the rounds that follow

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rolt968

Thank you everyone. I think the scores were also in the articles. I will post them.

RM

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Radlad

Officially......

The first shot is a 'clearing shot' .... to clear any oil from the barrel ( lubrication will usually cause a different MPI than a dry barrel would)

Second shot is to warm the dry barrel

Both the above are usually counted as 'convertible' , so the best 5 shots count for scoring.

 

This procedure was introduced for the first cartridges which were usually corrosively primed and a barrel HAD to be cleaned and possibly 'scrubbed' after each session. It has lingered on into the present day in some forms of shooting, especially long range, fullbore rifle

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MikB

With convertible sighters, the 'best <n> shots' description only applies if more than <n> are fired. If the shooter declares to convert his first sighter - which sometimes happens, at least in current target shooting - his second is also automatically converted, so he'll only have fired <n> shots. He can't convert the first and not the second, but if he doesn't convert the first, he can the second.

 

Current practice is normally to describe the course of fire as '2 and <n>', but in 20-odd years of fullbore target rifle, I only ever came across <n> =10 or 15, not 5.

 

I don't think I've ever seen 'warmers' or 'sighters' used in .22. The barrels are usually so substantial and the propellant charge so small that heating from a couple of rounds would be insignificant - though of course the corrosive priming would still have been an issue as Radlad said - and in WW1 'miniature rifle' might also mean something firing one of the specialist Morris cartridges, the longer one of which carried a larger charge. These were already obsolescent in WW1, but their use and associated practices might still have been current - more so in 1912. 

Edited by MikB

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jhill

There are traditions of seven shot shooting competitions in literature.  Some of you may be familiar with Weber's opera Der Freischutz , in which the hero unwisely does a deal with The Black Ranger to forge seven magic bullets with which he hopes to win a shooting competition.

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Dave1418
On 12/03/2019 at 09:41, Radlad said:

Officially......

The first shot is a 'clearing shot' .... to clear any oil from the barrel ( lubrication will usually cause a different MPI than a dry barrel would)

Second shot is to warm the dry barrel

Both the above are usually counted as 'convertible' , so the best 5 shots count for scoring.

 

This procedure was introduced for the first cartridges which were usually corrosively primed and a barrel HAD to be cleaned and possibly 'scrubbed' after each session. It has lingered on into the present day in some forms of shooting, especially long range, fullbore rifle

Officially .... if you could give the quote a reference I’d appreciate it.

A professional shooter would never shoot with an oiled barrel and then shoot it clear, this practice would always have a different shot fall due to the amount of oil present and the pressures it produced would always vary. It’s the same when zeroing in zones with differing humidity. A clean barrel with a cold shot will always have the same MPI which will differ to a warm barrel MPI.

The MPI of the cold shot is vitally important as a military sniper would know.

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rolt968

I have been looking at the scores for a competition. My man was one of the best two in his team with 100. His nephew was next with 98. The worst in the team scored 93. That looks pretty good, but the team came second. In the poorer teams the individual scores were in the 60s. I think that would match five shots counting. What do other people think?

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Radlad
On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 18:46, Dave1418 said:

Officially .... if you could give the quote a reference I’d appreciate it.

A professional shooter would never shoot with an oiled barrel and then shoot it clear, this practice would always have a different shot fall due to the amount of oil present and the pressures it produced would always vary. It’s the same when zeroing in zones with differing humidity. A clean barrel with a cold shot will always have the same MPI which will differ to a warm barrel MPI.

The MPI of the cold shot is vitally important as a military sniper would know.

 

Don't apply modern fullbore practices to the WW1 era. When the SMRC rules were written in 1903 there were no military snipers and most ammunition was corrosively primed. In addition Blackpowder cartridges were still common. Rifles had to be cleaned and often scrubbed after every use and then treated with a protective coating which had to be removed (usually by a Patch and then a shot) Competition shooting and professional shooters? not sure about the situation at that time. I can't find my historical rule books ATM  but if you are interested in miniature rifle shooting of the time, any book by A.G.Banks will be of interest.

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