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Help with RMLI research needed please, thanks


Liverpool Lou

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I am new to researching RMLI personnel and would like some help if possible please? My Great Uncle, Edward John Dal(e)y was a merchant seaman then  enlisted with the RMLI Plymouth Division Short Service, Register no 368. on 24 September 1914 .  My first question is  can you tell me if it is possible to find out which ship(s) he was on? I know he served at Gallipoli and I have a few pages  of brief notes torn from a note book that places him there on Friday  5th March to Thursday 18th March.  I have read this https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/63rd-royal-naval-division/royal-marine-deployment-to-gallipoli/  which fits in with his notes but haven’t managed to identify which ship he was on.

I have obtained his Service Records from National Archives but no ships are listed.  His record is noted that he was charged and imprisoned for begging in 1931 however he was invalided out of RMLI in 1916 so my next question is why would his service records be noted ?

Lastly, will there be any Attestation papers for him and where will I find them? I have been going round in circles trying to decide if it will be National Archives or the National Museum of the Royal Navy.

 

Thanks, Tricia

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The full Attestation papers may be at the Fleet Air Arm Museum but, like the other museums at the NMRN, they are all hands on deck and busy with certain relocation issues until 2021, so are not taking enquiries. 

 

I'm intrigued that you've found his service record from the National Archive because I haven't been able to track it down. What is his service number?

 

I can't lay my hands on it at the moment, but if I can find an article that will indicate what was going on 5-18 March (it deals with Gallipoli but I cannot recall if it covers those dates) I will let you know.

 

sJ

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As sJ says, and as far as far as I'm aware Edward Daley's service papers are held at the Fleet Air Arm Museum; however, his register of service entry is held at the National Archives under reference ADM 159/175/368. You will find this online on the Find My Past website amongst the Royal Marines 1899-1919 database. It shows that he was a member of the Royal Marines Brigade that was administered through the shore base (stone frigate) HMS Victory. You will find his medal entitlement (14-15 Star, War & Victory medals) and his Silver War Badge (SWB) amongst the UK Naval medals on Ancestry under Daley, Ed & Daley, E respectively.

 

Bootneck     

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I can confirm that, as sJ and bootneck say, his attestation pack is definitely in the FAAM archive. He did not serve in ships of the Fleet but was drafted into the Royal Naval Division (Plymouth Battalion) and served with the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force (MEF) at Gallipoli from February until late July 1915 when he was invalided home. He was invalided out of the service i May 1916. His FAAM papers (not available until 2020/21) will give more invaliding details than his Kew ADM 159 record, which you have.

The ship in which he travelled to the Dardanelles was the Hired Military Transport (HMT) BRAEMAR CASTLE.

He claimed and was issued with his trio of medals: 1914-15 Star and Victory and British War Medals.

Edited by horatio2
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Thanks for your replies so far. You have all been a great help to me. I have the National Archives record  held under  reference ADM 159/175/368, I thought that was the service records but realise now after reading Bootneck’s reply that it is actually the register of service, so does that mean that there will also be a service record? If so, will that be held by the National Archives too? I have already found his medal entitlement but thanks to Bootneck for pointing it out. I would love to hear more about the article you have in mind seaJane if you find it thanks.

Thanks horatio2 for the additional information, it’s amazing that you found the name of the ship! Can I ask where you found it  and the additional details please? I have a letter he wrote on paper headed "Church Army Recreation Tent on active service with  Mediterranean Expeditionary Force."  It is dated September 1915 and is noted for replies to be sent to Mustpha or Mistpha, any ideas where that was please?

Finally, any theories about the register of service being noted about the 1931 incident?

 

Thanks again, Tricia

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25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I have a letter he wrote on paper headed "Church Army Recreation Tent on active service with  Mediterranean Expeditionary Force."  It is dated September 1915 and is noted for replies to be sent to Mustpha or Mistpha, any ideas where that was please?

 

It is quite possible that being sick, wounded or injured at Gallipoli, and ultimately on his way back to England (see H2's post No.4 - “at Gallipoli from February until late July 1915 when he was invalided home”) that he would pass through the RAMC Reception Station at Mustapha, in Alexandria, Egypt
quote: “...the Mustapha Reception Station has grown into an establishment of prime importance, with a considerable medical and nursing staff and a bed accommodation for over 200 patients. During the period extending from August, 1915, to January, 1917, many thousands of men have, for one reason or another, passed through its hands.”
(from https://archive.org/stream/withramcinegypt00serjuoft/withramcinegypt00serjuoft_djvu.txt )

Edited by michaeldr
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16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

so does that mean that there will also be a service record?

ADM 159 Register of Service is the service record. His 'service number' is correctly termed his 'Register Number', in this case Plymouth/368(S) (or PLY/368(S), the (S) indicating enlistment for Short Service (duration of the war).

The best reference for you is "Britain's Sea Soldiers" by General Sir HE Blumberg (1927). You will probably find it online. It details the movement of Plymouth Battalion at Gallipoli, including the operations in March 1915.

Can you give the detail of "the 1931 incident"?

Mustapha Barracks, Alexandria, Egypt was the Base Depot and also, as michaeldr explains, handled injured men and probably acted as a mail centre.

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Thank you both for the information about Mustaph Barracks, I am learning lots and building up a better picture of what was happening to Edward Daly now. 

Regarding the 1931 incident, I included brief details in my original post  but  looking at it again I am questioning the date because it looks like NOS 143/31 of 17/1/31. Initially I thought 17/1/31 but maybe not? I have attached the record so that you can see it.

GBM-ADM159-175-0-0377.jpg

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1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I would love to hear more about the article you have in mind seaJane if you find it thanks.

Hallo Lou,

 

If he was at Gallipoli between 5-18 March he must have landed with the the Royal Marine Special Service (2 companies of Plymouth Battalion disembarked from HMT BRAEMAR CASTLE), as the main RND force did not arrive from Skyros until April 25 1915. 

 

The purpose of this landing is on the first page of the extract (I found it!), pp. 281-284 of Arthur Gaskell's History of the Medical Unit of the Royal Naval Division from its inception to the evacuation of Gallipoli. Journal of the Royal Naval Medical Service, vol. 11 (1925), pp. 275-291. 

(Apologies for the gap between the first and second extract but I couldn't get them on the same page.)

 

 

[Edit]. I can't post the extract as it is a Word document. Will convert it into a pdf and try again.

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He may or may not have landed at Kum Kale and Sedd ul Bahr with the two Plymouth Bn companies in March (50:50 possibility) but he would certainly have landed on 'Y' Beach, Gallipoili, with the main landings on 25 April.

The later manuscript entries on the service record:

"Statement of Service (S of S) to Ministry of Pensions (MOP) 14/10/19".

"To appear at Salford Police Court charged with begging MOP/NOS (??) 143/31 of 17/1/31."

"Sentenced to one month's (??) Hard Labour (HL) MOP/NOS (??) 143/31 of 31/1/31."

 

Clearly RM Records Office was informed about his 1931 offence and imprisonment. I am not sure what the MOP (or is it NOS?) references are.

Edited by horatio2
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MOP looks like Ministry of Pensions. Perhaps his pension wasn't enough to live on? 

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6 minutes ago, seaJane said:

MOP looks like Ministry of Pensions. Perhaps his pension wasn't enough to live on? 

It certainly is in the first entry but not so sure it is MOP in the two others from 1931.

Edited by horatio2
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Fair enough. I've been thinking about NOS but without success.

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Poor Edward! I thought that squiggle was someones initials, I never imagined it could stand for hard labour. I was wondering whether NOS 143/31 could be a case number.

Great information again,Thanks!

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seaJane , is that article you refer to available on line? horatio2, "Britains Sea soldiers" looks really interesting but quite expensive, even for a second hand copy. I am going to check if the library has a copy.

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It is, but in five separate pieces :) - I'm out at the moment, but I'll look later.

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Thanks seaJane. Thanks Horatio2, I am so please that that book is on line, it's a fascinating source of information.

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Here is the excerpt for the 5th-18th (actually 4th onward) March landing at Kum Kale.

 

Gallipoli RMLI.pdf

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https://archive.org/details/JRNMSVOL12Images/page/n46

Page 40 begins the description of the Y beach landings on 25 April. Note the brief reference to the death of Rupert Brooke on Skyros just before.

 

For better legibility toggle to full screen and zoom in using the buttons in the lower right corner of the display.

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That's great! Thanks seaJane,  I really appreciate your time spent finding them for me and the time spent by others too.  I have received more information and help than I could have imagined in response to my question so thank you  everyone who helped.

 

Tricia 

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