Edward G Paull, dow 7 Canadian General Hospital

[rolt968]

Pte Edward Gordon Paull, 4358, 1/7 Gordon Highlanders died at 7 Canadian General Hospital at Etaples on 25 November 1916. I had wondered if he was an early casualty of the first day of the Battle of Cambrai (20 November 1916). However would he have been taken through the casualty system that quickly?

 

However the death record of 1/7 Gordon Highlanders (scotlandspeople) seems to suggest that another possibility is more likely:

Does this make it more likely that he was wounded during the Capture of Beaumont Hamel, 13/14 November 1916?

 

What do colleagues with expertise on the casualty evacuation system think?

 RM

 

Edited 28 February , 2019 by rolt968

[TEW]

DOW makes it difficult to establish. The wounds may have been received the same day or weeks earlier.

Not uncommon to see wounded arrive at a CCS EG late morning, evacuated mid afternoon, arrive at port late afternoon and be on board ship UK bound early evening. Depending on which port and weather they could be in a UK hospital 36 hours after injury.

Paull may have been too seriously wounded to evacuate further or considered a moribund case. 

Cambrai 20/11/1916?

TEW

[TEW]

Just checked diary for 1/7 Gordons and ADMS 51st Division and the period 13/11/16 to 15/11/1916 seems the most likely. Not much else happening that month.

 

ADMS has daily figures for the period 13/11/16 to 17/11/16 which show 674 wounded though ADSs and MDS. Highest figure is 365 reported for 5pm 13th Nov. to 5pm 14th Nov.

 

I'll see if it's possible to determine that evacuation from ADSs (Mailly Maillet & Auchonvillers) or MDS (Forceville) to CCS group could then have evacuated to Etaples.

TEW

[rolt968]

19 hours ago, TEW said:

DOW makes it difficult to establish. The wounds may have been received the same day or weeks earlier.

Not uncommon to see wounded arrive at a CCS EG late morning, evacuated mid afternoon, arrive at port late afternoon and be on board ship UK bound early evening. Depending on which port and weather they could be in a UK hospital 36 hours after injury.

Paull may have been too seriously wounded to evacuate further or considered a moribund case. 

Cambrai 20/11/1916?

TEW

 

8 hours ago, TEW said:

Just checked diary for 1/7 Gordons and ADMS 51st Division and the period 13/11/16 to 15/11/1916 seems the most likely. Not much else happening that month.

 

ADMS has daily figures for the period 13/11/16 to 17/11/16 which show 674 wounded though ADSs and MDS. Highest figure is 365 reported for 5pm 13th Nov. to 5pm 14th Nov.

 

I'll see if it's possible to determine that evacuation from ADSs (Mailly Maillet & Auchonvillers) or MDS (Forceville) to CCS group could then have evacuated to Etaples.

TEW

Thank you both.

 

I knew about the heavy casualties in 1/7 Gordon Highlanders on 13/14 November 1916. Two other men on the same war memorial were killed serving with 1/7 Gordon Highlanders on 13/14 November 1916.

 

RM

[clk]

Hi RM,

 

FMP seem to have a relevant MH 106 record for him - link

 

It reads as:

 

First name(s): E

Last name: Paull

Age: 22

Service number: 4358

Rank: Private

Battalion: 7

Regiment: Gordon Highlanders

Hospital: No 11 Casualty Clearing Station

Admission date: In that column there is a "-", with no actual date. From other entries on the page, it seems like the record keeper was using the dash as a form of 'ditto'. If that were to be the case, the date would be 14.11.1916

Transfer date: 18.11.1916

Transferred to: 30 Ambulance Train

Ailment: (GSW) wounded left leg

Completed years service: 9 months

Completed months with Field Force: 2

 

Regards

Chris

[rolt968]

22 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi RM,

 

FMP seem to have a relevant MH 106 record for him - link

 

It reads as:

 

First name(s): E

Last name: Paull

Age: 22

Service number: 4358

Rank: Private

Battalion: 7

Regiment: Gordon Highlanders

Hospital: No 11 Casualty Clearing Station

Admission date: In that column there is a "-", with no actual date. From other entries on the page, it seems like the record keeper was using the dash as a form of 'ditto'. If that were to be the case, the date would be 14.11.1916

Transfer date: 18.11.1916

Transferred to: 30 Ambulance Train

Ailment: (GSW) wounded left leg

Completed years service: 9 months

Completed months with Field Force: 2

 

Regards

Chris

Thanks Chris!

That's brilliant. I had missed that completely.

Rather sadly since it was so short that gives me most of his military career.

RM

[TEW]

Chris has made that much easier by finding that entry.

I looked through V Corps, 5th Army and CCS diaries and identified the Varennes CCS group (4 & 11) as the designated CCSs

 I had 5 different ATs leaving Varennes between 13th and 18th Nov. but had no destinations. As guide to flow of evacuation the DMS reported that the attack started 5.45am, wounded began to arrive at Varennes around noon, 1st AT left Varennes 5pm which was considered a long delay by DMS. Journey time from nearby? Puchvilliers to Etaples was 11 hrs. Journey times varied a lot depending on other rail traffic, route taken etc but for men wounded EG 6am could be in a base hospital within 24 hrs. A 5 day stay for Paull at 11 CCS makes it sound a serious GSW otherwise he would have been entrained much sooner.

TEW

[rolt968]

A very grateful to all contributors. You have supplied me with much more information than I thought possible.

RM