Dardanelles Trawlers

[martin75]

Hello,

can someone tell me who was skipper of trawler HMTS RENARRO in march 1915 ?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Claude

[Ralph Currell]

Claude,

 

According to the 1916-17 edition of Lloyd's Register, the master of the Renarro was E.W. Darwood (from 1914).

 

Regards,

   Ralph

[horatio2]

Unfortunately, there was no RNR Skipper EW DARWOOD.

HMS RENARRO was formerly a Grimsby trawler and RNR DARWOODs all came from Grimsby, including two Arthurs and one Frederick DARWOOD who were Skippers. Her Skipper when she was mined in November 1918 was Simon FAIRNIE (born Midlothian) but I believe he had only recently take over.

[GreyC]

DARWOOD is also listed in the 1917/18 Lloyd´s register that I have. So they will not habe updated it since the start of the war.

GreyC

[horatio2]

RENARRO was fitted out for RN service at Lowestoft (HMS HALCYON) in February 1915 and was in the Dardanelles, based initially on HMS BLENHEIM, from 17 March 1915.

[martin75]

Hello,

 

for the period between 19 february and 18 march 1915, I have the following minesweeping trawlers

 

1^st group                                                                                                                  2^nd group

trawler n°48    Restrivo                      Skipper William G. Wood, R.N.R.                        trawler n°308  G. M.                         Skipper Henry James Sr., R.N.R.

trawler n°10    Vidonia                      Skipper William Harbon, R.N.R.                           trawler n°293  Achilles                      Skipper Thomas Albert Dawson, R.N.R.

trawler n°318  Star of the Empire     Skipper William Slatter, R.N.R.                      trawler n°324  Koorah                      Skipper Robert  Woodgate, R.N.R.

trawler n°49    Frascati                      Skipper Alfred Edward Berry, R.N.R.                trawler n°285  Okino                         Skipper  James Sargent, R.N.R.

trawler n°448  Fentonian                  Skipper Edward Timothy Worrell, R.N.R.       trawler n°1043Renarro                     Skipper

trawler n°92    Strathlossie                 Skipper William Henry Collins, R.N.R.              trawler n°323  Coronatia                   Skipper John Kime, R.N.R.

trawler n°102  Strathord                    Skipper Albert Edward Olley, R.N.R.                 trawler n°258  Richmond Castle            Skipper William Alfred Darby, R.N.R.

 

3^rd group

trawler n°43    Escallonia                  Skipper Alfred Swain, R.N.R.

trawler n°705  Avon                           Skipper George Lee, R.N.R.

trawler n°339  Manx Hero                Skipper Edward Bray, R.N.R.

trawler n°269  Syringa                       Skipper James Blake R.N.R.

trawler n°362  Beatrice II                  Skipper Henry James Jr. R.N.R.

trawler n°354  Gwenllian                  Skipper Robert Major Limbrick, R.N.R.

trawler n°284  Soldier Prince            Skipper Charles Sykes Dawson R.N.R.

Renarro, GM, Achilles, Okino and Beatrice II were detached for operations in the gulf of Smyrna (where Okino was sunk) but were back in the Dardanelles before 18 march.

Following a breakdown of machinery, Coronatia is brought back in tow to Malta by coal ship Tabarka on 15 march.

This list definitely includes errors, if someone is kind enough to help me make the corrections, he will be welcome.

Thanks in advance

[Rockturner]

M75

Renarro 1043 was skippered by a Lieutenant Church RN.

It was tasked with submarine patrols being placed in I (for indigo) at the entrance of the Dardanelles along with 354 Gwenllian under Lt Sinclair RNR, 102 Strathlord under Lt Strange RNR, 48 Restrivo under Lt J N Pitts RNR, 362 Beatrice under Lt Green RN and Skipper H James, and 351 Ophir under Skipper J W Blyth.

The document I have is dated 23 May 1915.

Further to:

10 Vidonia under Lt - Cdr Lloyd Thomas RN

318 Star of Empire under Lt Gibbons RNR

49 Frascati Lt - Cdr Giffard RN and Skipper A C Berry (Anzac landings)

448 Fentonian Mr H V Gamblen and ... Gunner RN (Anzac landings)

92 Strathlossie Sub - Lt Reid RNR

308 "G M" Mr Houghton and ...Gunner RN

293 Achilles LT Bickering RNR

324 Koorah under Lt Lang RN

285 Okino under Lt Whitehouse RNR

323 Coronatia under Skipper J Kime

258 Richmond Castle under Mr Taylor , Mate RN and Skipper W A Darby

43 Escallonia under Lt - Cdr Baird RNR and Skipper A Swain

705 Avon under Mr Lee, Boatswain RN (Red Cross trawler Anzac landings)

339 Manx Hero no listing

269 Syringa under Skipper W Hadley

284 Soldier Prince under Mr Buckingham, Boatswain RN and Skipper C S Dawson

Hope this helps.

And a hello to Hotatio2 and SeaJane.

LonerangerVC

 

 

[horatio2]

6 hours ago, martin75 said:

for the period between 19 february and 18 march 1915, I have the following minesweeping trawlers

Interesting. Thank you for posting. The trawlers in the three Groups (with the exception of RENARRO) were all based on HMS BLENHEIM, by 22 January 1915, RENARRO being deployed from UK two months later. OKINO was sunk by mining on 8 March 1915 off Izmir.

Edited 1 March , 2019 by horatio2

[horatio2]

2 hours ago, Rockturner said:

Renarro 1043 was skippered by a Lieutenant Church RN.

A clash of terms here. By definition, a 'Skipper' can only be an RNR warrant officer. A commissioned officer (RN or RNR) cannot, by definition, be a Skipper. An RN or RNR officer in a trawler could be in command or, if the boat also had an appointed Skipper, he could be a 'senior officer' commanding operations (of a group of boats). It is impossible for a trawler to have a Skipper and another officer both in command. The OP asked who the 'Skipper' of RENARRO was and Lieutenant Church cannot have been that, although he may have been the commanding officer.

Splitting hairs but there is a difference.

[Ralph Currell]

20 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Unfortunately, there was no RNR Skipper EW DARWOOD.

HMS RENARRO was formerly a Grimsby trawler and RNR DARWOODs all came from Grimsby, including two Arthurs and one Frederick DARWOOD who were Skippers. Her Skipper when she was mined in November 1918 was Simon FAIRNIE (born Midlothian) but I believe he had only recently take over.

 

Thanks for the correction.  I notice that an Ernest William Darwood was skipper of the Grimsby trawler Ventnor in July 1915, when that vessel was lost with all hands.

Ralph

Edited 1 March , 2019 by Ralph Currell

[martin75]

Hello,

 

thanks to all for your help.

I have just found reference to a Mate Stanley Fry who seem to be in command of Renarro before Smyrna when Okino was sunk :

https://www.illustratedfirstworldwar.com/item/mine-sweeping-in-many-waters-bpc000006_19150529_01_0020/

He can be the man I am looking for !

Horatio2 is true, at Dardanelles, trawlers were initially under command of their civilian Skipper ; then the crew were renforced by some volunteers from other ships ; then, the civilian crews were send back to England and replaced by volunteers. So, at certain periods, aboard a trawler there was an officier of the fleet and a civilian Skipper.

I join the list of volunteers aboard trawlers of unit n°1 during night 13 to 14 march 1915

[horatio2]

3 hours ago, martin75 said:

I have just found reference to a Mate Stanley Fry who seem to be in command of Renarro before Smyrna when Okino was sunk

There was no RN "Mate" Stanley FRY but there was an RNR Skipper, Stanley Couch FRY, who did, from his record, command RENARRO in early 1915. See:-

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8547625

Edited 2 March , 2019 by horatio2

[martin75]

All my thanks for the link.

I have verified for trawler Fentonian  :  Worrell was member of crew (killed on 14 march) but he was not the Skipper; If someone can tell me who was Skipper during first half of march 1915, il would be very kind !

 

[Raymond-dunn]

Trawler 308 "GM" a Mr Houghton is in your list.

Would this be David Thomas Houghton Gunner(T) of HMS Irresistible

[martin75]

Hello,

during night march 10 to 11, seven trawlers attempted to sweep the Kepez minefield ; were surely present the n ° 339 Manx Hero (sunk by a mine), the n ° 354 Gwenllian and the n ° 324 Koorah (which collects the crew of the Manx Hero). Could someone tell me who the other four trawlers were.

The n° 705 Avon was also operating that night but independently of the seven others. Two of the trawlers were hit by shells with two minor injuries. Do we know which ones?

Thanks for your help

Regards

Claude

[horatio2]

The Official History states "On the night of the 10th the force detailed was seven trawlers of the 3rd Group"

My notes record 3rd Group as:  Trawler 43    Escallonia; Trawler 705  Avon;  Trawler 339  Manx Hero;  Trawler 269  Syringa;  Trawler 362  Beatrice II;  Trawler 354  Gwenllian;  Trawler 284  Soldier Prince.

I also have Trawler 324  Koorah as part of 2nd Group of trawlers. She may have been detailed for rescue and was probably/possibly not sweeping (or she may have substituted for Avon II). I do not know which two trawlers were hit.

 

Edited 4 September , 2021 by horatio2

[martin75]

Hello Horatio2,

thanks for your answer !

this is also what I thought but it seems that at this date GM, Achilles, Okino (sunk on 8 march), Renarro and Beatrice II were in the Gulf of Smyrna .

Thus, even with the Koorah in reinforcement, it would still miss a trawler

If anyone has any additional information!

[horatio2]

Very interesting.

I have the seven boats of 2nd Group as:-  Trawler 308  G.M;  Trawler 293  Achilles;  Trawler 324  Koorah;  Trawler 285  Okino;  Trawler 1043   Renarro;  Trawler 323  Coronatia;  Trawler 258  Richmond Castle.

It would seem that boats of 2nd Group had been sent to Smyrna from 6-9 March.and 3rd Group was employed (per Official History) sweeping in the Dardanelles on 10/11 March.

Exceptions to this seem to be (from your post): Koorah of 2nd Group attached to 3rd Group on 10/11 March and Beatrice II of 3rd Group attached to the 2nd Group at Smyrna. Can this be explained? I assume Coronatia and Richmond Castle were with the others of 2nd Group at Smyrna (or were they?)

I have yet to find a comprehensive record of the trawler dispositions by name. 

Edited 4 September , 2021 by horatio2

[martin75]

it seems Coronatia and Richmond Castle were not at Smyrna.

In fact, the quetion is : were all trawlers of the three groups arrived at Dardanelles before the beginning of operations ? If not, this could explain mixtures between the three groups. 

I am sure that the Coronatia returned to Malta under tow following a machinery failure (departure on March 15); I do not know, however, when the failure occurred.

For the Richmond Castle, I'm sure he was there on March 17th. On this date, the three groups were reorganized (see attached document extracted from the Keyes Papers)

[horatio2]

Thank you for posting the AMETHYST Memo. This agrees well with my listing of the three trawler Groups from early March.

The overall number of eighteen for the 18 March operations (reduced from three Groups of seven = 21) is accounted for by the sinkings of OKINO/285 from Group 2 (replaced by VIDONIA/10 from Group 1) and of MANX HERO from Group 3 and by the absence of CORONATIA/323 from the list for Group 2. I still do not have anything on her being towed to Malta - could she be the trawler (mine sweeper) that AMETHYST reported ashore on Talbot Rock on 21 February? RICHMOND CASTLE/258 is still in Group 2.

By the end of February 1915 Admiral Carden’s force was completed by the three groups of mine-sweeping trawlers — two groups were despatched from Lowestoft (HMS HALCYON) and one group was sent out from Grimsby (HMS PEKIN) — numbering twenty-one vessels in all. Their crews were placed 'on the books' of HMS BLENHEIM, their new parent ship at Mudros, from 22 January - presumably their departure date from UK.

I see we are covering some of the same material as in an earlier topic  -  https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/270322-trawler-hms-renarro-march-1915/  Perhaps they could be usefully merged under an amended title "Dardanelles trawlers"?

 

[martin75]

For Coronatia, you can see the logbook of HMS Blenheim on naval history.net for march 14 and march 15 (original document not retranscription).

Concerning the two trawlers damaged during night march 10 to 11, I have read that on morning of march 11, one trawler came alongside HMS Agamemnon for reparation of shell damage. It is perhaps mentionned in the book "Dardanelles : a midshipman's diary" de H. M. Denham.

[horatio2]

Thanks for the tip on BLENHEIM's logbook.

Denham has for 12 March: "A 'sweeping trawler" [not named] anchored 50 yds off AGAMEMNON to enable our carpenters to repair the hole made by a 6-in. shell during last night's sweeping."

[horatio2]

A further observation on the AMETHYST Memo, which lists VIDONIA/10 in Group 2 (I assumed as a replacement for the sunk OKINO/285).

VIDONIA appears to have worked with her original Group 1 on 13/14 March and is included in the very useful list of officers and men posted by @martin75 on 5 Mar 2019. Group 1 was brought back down to six boats for the first, daylight sweeeping task on 18 March.

Edited 5 September , 2021 by horatio2

[martin75]

Group1 was also engaged during night march 11 to 12.

I was the one who posted the documents you referred to on the forum in March 2019. They also come from the Keyes Papers which can be found online on the British Library website.

[pierssc]

Anyone interested in seeing a photo of KOORAH - albeit in 1918?

 

Edited 24 January , 2022 by pierssc