R.F.A. number's.

[stevej60]

Hi folk's,an enquiry on electoral register's over on rootschat has led to one of the member's finding my Grandfather on an absent voter's list for 1918

and solving the mystery of which unit he served in during the Great war which has eluded us for as long as I can remember,I now no he(Robert Vincent

Smith) was with 315 brigade RFA which after reading a little on it's history makes sense as he was a native of Gateshead.This has led me to his medal

card which has his number 7508239 also (on the voter's list) I just wondered the origin of the other number 2033?

[David Porter]

Stevej60,

 

2033 would have been his number on enlistment and 750823 would be his number from January 1917. This was due to the renumbering of the Territorial Force.

Full listing for the TF artillery here - 

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-of-the-tf-artillery-in-1917/

 

[Alan24]

I was going to say that the 7 figure number usually denotes a post 1920 service number.

 

His MIC actually has his numbers as 2033 and 750823 - not sure where the 9 on the end came from.

 

Therefore we now know 2033 was an early TF number and 750823 was his 1917 renumbering which is why it was used in the 1918 AVL.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

[Alan24]

David got there just before me!

 

His number does confirm 315 Bde,which you could have deduced without the AVL.

 

750001 – 755000: 315 Brigade, RFA/ 2/1 Northumbrian

 

Regards

 

Alan.

[stevej60]

Many thank's David and Alan,my fault adding the nine to the number I'm afraid,great to finally know which regiment he served and looking at the Brigade's

war he would have been in a good deal of scrape's too!

Edited 28 February , 2019 by stevej60

[stevej60]

Hi folk's,what may be a question without a definitive answer, in the spring absent voters list Robert is listed Gunner B battery 315 Bde,RFA.

can I assume he was a gunner rather than a driver or signaller?

[jay dubaya]

Given that all docs record him as Gunner I would take that as being somewhat definitive

[MaxD]

Have to be a bit careful.  Driver and Gunner were the two (lowest) ranks so as a (rank) Gunner he was not a (rank)  Driver (vide jay dubaya).  Nice discussion of it here:

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/78564-drivers-royal-field-artillery/

 

However,  Gunners were employed not solely on the guns, but as signallers or in the command post so if he was a (by employment) signaller he was still (rank) Gunner.

 

Max

Edited 11 November , 2019 by MaxD
clarity

[stevej60]

2 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

Given that all docs record him as Gunner I would take that as being somewhat definitive

 

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

Have to be a bit careful.  Driver and Gunner were the two (lowest) ranks so as a (rank) Gunner he was not a (rank)  Driver (vide jay dubaya).  Nice discussion of it here:

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/78564-drivers-royal-field-artillery/

 

However,  Gunners were employed not solely on the guns, but as signallers or in the command post so if he was a (by employment) signaller he was still (rank) Gunner.

 

Max

Thanks Jay and Max,I've just read George Elder's "from Geordieland to No man's land" again since finding Grandad's number was similar to George's,

I would think he shared most of his experiences and fought the same engagements.His brother George was a driver out in Salonika and I would suspect

his other brother's James and John may have served as they were all of a similar age,as an aside I took the free Ancestry weekend to check out the army

records of John Kirton RAMC who I suspected was related(Kirton being Grandma's maiden name) it was when I noticed a note mentioning their sister Kate

I realised he was indeed my Gt.Uncle.

[MaxD]

Presumably you have looked over the outline history of 315 Brigade RFA  https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/batteries-and-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/cccxv-cccxvi-cccxvii-and-cccxviii-howitzer-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery-63rd-divisional-artillery/

and identified the relevant war diaries?  Just in case:

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=315+artillery+WO+95  (First 3 on this page)

the top one is on Ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_3102_0-00698?pid=352204&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DdVB968%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D60779%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3D3102%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D352204%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dVB968&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=43112_3102_0-00184  (starts image 185)

 

Max

 

PS All this is France/Belgium so the reference to the same experiences as the brother in Salonika doesn't stack up as far as location is concerned.

Edited 11 November , 2019 by MaxD
PS added

[stevej60]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

PS All this is France/Belgium so the reference to the same experiences as the brother in Salonika doesn't stack up as far as location is concerne

Apologies Max I was referring to Grandad and George Elder,I have no Knowledge of  his brother George other than the absent voters list has him as

driver ASC in Salonica he was a motor driver(heavy) in the 1939 register so maybe the army is where he learned to drive.

[stevej60]

Hi folk's another query on this subject,I've seen the AV list for 1919 and 1920 and he was recorded with the same info on these later list's would this be due

to him awaiting demob and being home or would it indicate him still being in the army to me as a 1915 recruit it seems well over his entitled release date?