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verdun

BUGLE 8th Bn West Yorkshire Regt.

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verdun

I have what seems to be a vintage brass and copper military bugle, bearing the badge and insignia of "8th Bn. PWO West Yorkshire Reg" - see photos attached. The bugle is almost exactly a foot in length and also has a WD arrow near the regimental badge.

 

The bugle appears to have belonged to 40055 Bugler D. Cook.  I can find no one of that name who has a Medal Index Card, or whose Army Service Records have survived. I am also wondering if that means the bugle is of pre-WW1, or post-WW1 vintage?

 

Any ideas or information about the bugle and/or the bugler would be most appreciated. Many thanks if you can help.

 

 

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max7474

The 8th ceased to exist in 1918.  However attaching badges to bugles is widely faked. 

 

In reality you would not do such a thing if you wanted to play it as the badge may affect the sound of the bugle..

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Dave66

I tend to agree, having a couple of plain pre WW1 military issued bugles I am always wary of these "enhanced" pieces...the broad arrow looks suspicious and would normally be where the badge is, along with maker, year of manufacture and inspection stamps. Patination around the badges doesn't look right also, too much polish but not dark enough for me...sorry verdun.

 

Dave.

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tubist73

I'm afraid this is one of the older styles of fake bugles out there, before the massed-produced copies appeared from India/Pakistan. These do look a lot more convincing, having a more natural patina than the contrived ageing on the more recent fakes, however they are still not authentic. I have a similar fake bugle badged up to the 17/21 Lancers which follows an identical design - what looks like a real badge, shoulder title and crown soldered to the top of the bell, an incorrect WD arrow and the little brass maker's plate on the bell reinforcement. Often some form of identification is stamped onto the bell or a plate like yours. This kind of personal information is almost never seen on real examples.

 

On many of these fakes the cords are tightly wound to conceal more details, including a second brass band on the lower section of tubing which is never present on real examples. Try pulling the cord aside and you might find a brass joining piece right in the middle of the tubing. The rings for a strap or banner are also soldered in the wrong place - they are never found on authentic Bb bugles like this, only on longer Eb cavalry or fanfare trumpets. Your mouthpiece looks like it could be an original (these are a real giveaway, if fake), but I can't tell from your pictures.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but these older fakes can look very convincing. The best proof is to try playing the bugle; often it has hidden leaks and just does not play properly. As a former professional brass player I have the advantage of being able to test play every instrument, which helps to sort out the real from even the best-looking fakes. I hope this information helps, as it's based on many years of collecting around 30-40 examples of military bugles and trumpets from around the world. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

Matthew

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PhilB

As a general rule, if there is anything soldered on I assume it's fake unless there is an authentic maker's mark and arrow. In the latter case, an authentic bugle may have been added to, though I have never seen one.

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Gunner Bailey
5 hours ago, PhilB said:

As a general rule, if there is anything soldered on I assume it's fake unless there is an authentic maker's mark and arrow. In the latter case, an authentic bugle may have been added to, though I have never seen one.

Wise words... 

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verdun

Many thanks to all who have replied and, particularly, for Matthew's in-depth and very informed response. I think I am probably more fascinated than disappointed. I've had the bugle for quite a few years, but am not sure now where I acquired it - I think it came in a pile of stuff that I bought in a militaria auction, but it's also possible that it came from the great Bay of E!

 

What intrigues me is why someone would go to so much trouble to produce something attributed to a relatively 'obscure' unit. Or perhaps that's the whole point...

 

Any more thoughts would be most welcome. Kind regards to all, Peter

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Dave66

I remember, a few years ago, trawling through a large flea market. Saw a stall with two or three bugles so worth a peek, fairly recent and unmarked so no interest to me, but a clap picked one up, negotiated a price for all available and then announced he will be adding some "badges" and sell them online. Still going on I'm afraid.

Relieved you didn't spend a fortune!

Dave.

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303man

There is one identical to West Riding Regiment on Saleroom.com this time to 40070 Bugler E.Dawson. Army number just 15 away from the one in the first post, amazing coincidence!

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303man

However the one to 5th Bn Somerset Light Infantry on saleroom is as right as rain and has a lower estimate than the odd one!

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verdun

The bugle marked to the West Riding Regt. sold today for £55.00!

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