Admin RussT Posted 17 February , 2019 Admin Share Posted 17 February , 2019 This is a cropped image of an RFA man. Is it possible to say from the image whether he was a driver or gunner? Are those spurs attached to his boots? Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 Alas there is no way of telling a Dvr or Gnr apart Russ and yes they are spurs, you can just make out the leather strapings over the boots J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 33 minutes ago, RussT said: This is a cropped image of an RFA man. Is it possible to say from the image whether he was a driver or gunner? Are those spurs attached to his boots? Regards Russ Spurs and whip would lean heavily towards a Driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 9 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Spurs and whip would lean heavily towards a Driver. Just not true both Dvr and Gnr wore spurs and I have three family members who were gunners photos show all posing with crops......and spurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Just not true both Dvr and Gnr wore spurs and I have three family members who were gunners photos show all posing with crops......and spurs Surely he is dressed as a driver with Spurs and whip displayed as tools of trade. I thought as a Dvr. he would still be trained in gun drill and be able to act as a replacement Gnr. Edited 17 February , 2019 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Le Duc Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 My Grandfather started as Driver and was promoted to Gunner and finally Bombardier. I still have his spurs and crop in my possession. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 (edited) If available all gunners of field and horse artillery batteries would carry a whip and wear spurs when walking-out, or posing for portrait photos, just as infantrymen would try to carry a swagger cane. This was to mark the RFA/RHA status as a mounted rather than dismounted ‘corps’, regardless of individual roles. This was not always possible depending on circumstances, but because being mounted was seen as superior over footsloggers, gunners would generally try to maintain the mounted appearance. Edited 17 February , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 3 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Surely he is dressed as a driver with Spurs and whip displayed as tools of trade. No, the whip, crop, cane is more likely to be a photographers prop. Below is Gunner Levi Woodhouse....complete with spurs and crop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 1 minute ago, jay dubaya said: No, the whip, crop, cane is more likely to be a photographers prop. Below is Gunner Levi Woodhouse....complete with spurs and crop Thanks. I have pictures of gunners wearing spurs and whip, whose service records sometimes show them to have previously acted as drivers; the post from Frogsmile offers the best explanation as to why they'd be used for a symbolic role. Every day is a school day. 21 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: If available all gunners of field and horse artillery batteries would carry a whip and wear spurs when walking-out, or posing for portrait photos, just as infantrymen would try to carry a swagger cane. This was to mark the RFA/RHA status as a mounted rather than dismounted ‘corps’, regardless of individual roles. This was not always possible depending on circumstances, but because being mounted was seen as superior over footsloggers, gunners would generally try to maintain the mounted appearance. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Every day is a school day. Indeed and as always Frogsmile will paint a fuller picture Levi was a prewar TF soldier enlisted as Gunner with 3rd West Riding Bde RFA. Re-enlisted as a Gunner in August 1914 and KiA on the 18th July 1916 whilst serving with the 53rd Bde RFA Edited 17 February , 2019 by jay dubaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 17 February , 2019 Author Admin Share Posted 17 February , 2019 Many thanks for all the contributions - great info. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetDan Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 A chap i'am researching at the moment , was a Gunner in the R.G.A , all the photos I have of him he is in full mounted kit ( spurs, riding crop,etc ) , as he was employed as a officers servant/groom . I also have photos of him riding and tending a horse which I presume must be his officers and not from the battery. Could also have happened in the R.F.A ! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aim Posted 18 February , 2019 Share Posted 18 February , 2019 On 17/02/2019 at 17:17, GWF1967 said: I thought as a Dvr. he would still be trained in gun drill and be able to act as a replacement Gnr. Some quotes from LVI Brigade war diaries:- Brigade. Cape Helles. 7 October 1915. 2nd. Lt. M.J. O'Connell - 1 corpl - 1 Br and 18 Drivers found from England. D/56 RFA. Cape Helles. 8th. October 1915. Draft of 1 corporal & 10 men arrived. The men turned out to be drivers, as we have no horses here, they are rather out of place. C Battery. Cape Helles. 7pm. 6.10.15 2nd Lt. O'Connell (appointed 17/3/15) and 20 other ranks arrived. 2nd Lt. O'Connell & 10 other ranks being posted to this unit. These men being however drivers with little or no knowledge of gunnery are not of as much use as anticipated. So maybe they wouldn't be able to replace real gunners! aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 18 February , 2019 Share Posted 18 February , 2019 On 17/02/2019 at 16:31, jay dubaya said: Alas there is no way of telling a Dvr or Gnr apart Russ and yes they are spurs, you can just make out the leather strapings over the boots J Not a universal generalisation because any RHA RFA soldier wearing the L appointment badge is a gunner, and any one wearing a driving prize badge is a driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 February , 2019 Share Posted 19 February , 2019 11 hours ago, Muerrisch said: Not a universal generalisation because any RHA RFA soldier wearing the L appointment badge is a gunner, and any one wearing a driving prize badge is a driver. My broth is becoming a consommé thank you for the clarification Grumpy.... although impossible to tell from waist down images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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