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Remembered Today:

Help with uniforms


Nagal11

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I recently discovered a relative I did not know existed. We have exchanged a lot of photos..but she doesn't know who some of the people are, and neither do I. My 

dad's family was from Crossgar Co.Down. Many of the men served in the 16th RIR, but also a couple of other Battalions. The relative I discovered sent me this photo. One of my relatives emigrated to Alberta Canada. I know they had men serving in Canadian forces and also in British forces . I think these are probably Co. Down men and we would like to find out who they are. I can probably figure it out if I have confirmation of their uniform. I'd really appreciate any help at all . Thanks so much.

Unknown soldiers.jpg

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These men belong to the "Transport Section" of a Pioneer Battalion, belonging to a Regiment of the British Army as noted by their dress and special collar badges, which is a crossed Rifle and pickaxe. Sadly no other badges, i.e. shoulder titles seem visible so that we could positively identify the unit. However the man seated to our left does seem to be wearing black buttons, which would define a "Rifle" regiment and he is also wearing three overseas service chevrons, possibly in scarlet looking at the shade of them.

 

If they are indeed members of the Royal Irish Rifles, which they possibly are, then they would indeed belong to the 16th Battalion,Royal Irish Rifles(Pioneers) - which was Pioneer Battalion of this Regiment

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I think that Graham has hit the nail on the head and strongly believe that all these men belong to the 16th (Pioneers) Royal Irish Rifles.  All shoulder titles that I can see seem to be the 3-letter RIR, and it was quite common for black buttons to be in short supply.  The bandoliers suggest battalion transport section as he says, and the leather leggings are quite unusual, seeming to also be black as appropriate for a Rifles battalion.  At the following link the relative of a member of the 16th RIR has traced the battalion’s entire WW1 history:  http://www.marador.co.uk/?page_id=127

Scroll to bottom to find various sub links.

 

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A58B018D-53FD-4AF0-80B4-E9207892C4F6.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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In total agreement with Graham and Frogsmile.....well almost....

 

2 hours ago, Graham Stewart said:

he is also wearing three overseas service chevrons, possibly in scarlet looking at the shade of them.

 

most definitely not scarlet which would appear almost black with orthochromic film, they are blue chevrons likely awarded for 1916, 1917 and 1918, only service between 4th August and 31st December 1914 would qualify for the scarlet chevron. The chevrons do help date the image to the first months of 1918 at the earliest, if the man sporting them is a 16th RIR then this may date the image to being perhaps mid 1919 when the 36th (Ulster) Division was broken up. The leather leg protectors do indeed look unusual and appear to be of various designs, those worn by motorcycle dispatch riders spring to mind, these fellas don't look like horsemen.

 

J

 

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9 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

In total agreement with Graham and Frogsmile.....well almost....

 

 

most definitely not scarlet which would appear almost black with orthochromic film, they are blue chevrons likely awarded for 1916, 1917 and 1918, only service between 4th August and 31st December 1914 would qualify for the scarlet chevron. The chevrons do help date the image to the first months of 1918 at the earliest, if the man sporting them is a 16th RIR then this may date the image to being perhaps mid 1919 when the 36th (Ulster) Division was broken up. The leather leg protectors do indeed look unusual and appear to be of various designs, those worn by motorcycle dispatch riders spring to mind, these fellas don't look like horsemen.

 

J

 

Ooops - apologies got my chevron colours mixed up. However they aren't motor cyclists either - when we talk of the Transport Section in a Battalion, we aren't talking vehicles in the modern sense, but in the terms of horse and carts or GS wagons as they were more commonly termed and as such infantryman were dressed to accommodate this role and wartime photos do tend to show a mixture of clothing/equipment as was available at the time.

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2 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

My reasoning in these fellas not being horsemen was the lack of spurs visible 

 

Jay, infantry transport sections were cart drivers, ranging from GS wagons (the majority) to the officers’ Mess Maltese cart and, later on, some water carts.  The only time they would wear spurs was if exercising an officer’s charger.  Artillery and ASC transport wore spurs and I think that’s what you are thinking of.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Enlightened thank you Frogsmile, I think you’re right, my assumption that all horsemen would wear spurs is incorrect, ironically we’ve kept horses for the last thirty years.....and I’ve never worn a pair of spurs

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1 hour ago, jay dubaya said:

Enlightened thank you Frogsmile, I think you’re right, my assumption that all horsemen would wear spurs is incorrect, ironically we’ve kept horses for the last thirty years.....and I’ve never worn a pair of spurs

 

Another factor to consider is that both patterns of 'Boot, Field, Mounted Services' are being sported (front left and rear right) respectively too...

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

 

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1 hour ago, jay dubaya said:

Thanks for that GT, am I seeing a third pattern front right?

 

J

 

No I don't think so: that looks like a standard ankle boot with a Stohwasser-type legging being worn.

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