Kut-el-Amara, Medical Personnel taken PoW after the siege.

[charlie962]

I am struggling to identify a decent number of the Warrant Officer and Other Ranks of the medical personnel that were under siege inside Kut until the surrender 29/4/16. At the point of surrender it was planned that a significant number would be released and sent down river but at the last momment the Turkish changed their minds. There was a release of some 22 British and 40 Indian Army medical personnel in Sept 1916 but a number of them had been captured before Kut fell. The difficulty in identifying these men seems to be that most of the Nursing Orderlies were men attached from the infantry battalions. I haven't yet indentified a single man with RAMC as his unit. But I am progressing with Assistant Surgeons of the Indian Subordinate Medical Dept and I shall append a list of those (about a dozen) I've found so far.

 

Can anyone get me started on those RAMC men or even the attached infantrymen? I haven't any idea** who were the 22 exchanged in Sept 1916 (I have another thread about 'exchanges')

 

Many thanks

Charlie

 

**edit, I'm fibbing. I have one, Sidney Bernard Barnes, 1844, RAMC attd Devons.

Edited 16 February , 2019 by charlie962

[alf mcm]

Charlie,

  You may already be aware of this, but TNA has a list of Prisoners of War in Turkey at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4084782

  It can be viewed at TNA or on Findmypast. Findmypast has the following RAMC personell https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?datasetname=prisoners of war 1715-1945&eventyear=1916&eventyear_offset=2&regiment=royal army medical corps&keywordsplace=turkey&keywordsplace_proximity=5

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

[charlie962]

Alf, many thanks for a rapid response; I suspect the FMP list is officers, but I will double check? The TNA file via FMP I have already seen. Charlie

 

James 32234 died at Afion Kara Hissar jan 1917 so I shall follow him up- thanks.  Ah he was captured 1915 Anafarta so not one for my list. Flood and Long are similar. I think Moore was also captured pre fall of Kut, probably Suez Canal/ Katia.

Edited 16 February , 2019 by charlie962

[seaJane]

@petestarling any ideas?

[charlie962]

Thanks for support sJ,

 

Here is a list of some of the Assistant Surgeons I believe captured at Kut and my attempt to identify the unit to which attached before surrender.

 

Assistant Surgeons, Indian Subordinate Medical Department

Believed captured at kut 29/4/16

Phaure    Albert Edgar Alphonse        ??                               Ras el Ain 10/10/17    
Wells    Harold Arthur Thompson    4th FA                          Yarbashi 3/17; Repatriated 1918
Aquino    Frank                              104 HB RGA                  Adana Hospital 9/16
Paes    Anthony                             2nd Field Ambulance     Yozgad 9/16
Gomes    Arthur Louis                     2nd RW Kents                exch2  9/16
Shemain    Nicholas Philip                      ??                            exch2  9/16
Newbold    John  Walter                  76th Bty RFA                    ??
De Souza Sebastien Alex                        ??                           Ras el Ain 10/10/17
Duckworth Eugene                          3 BGH                           AKH  10/16
Holt    Edwin Brook                         2nd Field Ambulance     Ras el Ain 10/16 and 10/10/17. DCM
Mackay    Donald Lionel                        ??                            Airan 1917    
Hixon    Arthur J                                       ??                          Sheker Dere (AmanusMts) 3/17
Lewis    Roderick Paul ?                     ??                                Ras el Ain 10/10/17
Owers    F  F                                    1 OBLI                            ??
Fratel    William                               86th HB RGA                 Bagtche 1916/17

*Stewart Hugh Norman                    Vol Arty Bty                      AKH  Aug 1917

Note that most if not all survived and went on to serve in the IMS in WWII.

 

These two died during the siege and are buried in Kut War Cemetery:

*West G C                                      82nd Bty RFA                   died 12/2/16

*Hallums EC                                                                             died 12/3/16

 

Sub Assistant Surgeons:

Fazal Ahmed,                                    24th Punjabis.                AKH 10/16
Sayad Abdul Rayim,                      57 Indian Stat Hop.            AKH 10/16

 

Ghose P K,                              Bengal Ambulance Corps         Mosul  10/17

(for others of the BAC I have a list- see notes below

 

 

* = updated 24/2/19

 

thanks

charlie

perhaps a little gem may come from

@Maureene

Edited 24 February , 2019 by charlie962

[seaJane]

Charles H. Barber's Besieged in Kut and after (Edinburgh: Blackwood, 1917) is entered in the IWM catalogue as concerning medical affairs at Kut. 

 

R. Campbell Begg's Surgery on trestles (Norwich: Jarrold & Sons, 1967) likewise.

 

Of these I only have the latter and can't recall if there is a nominal roll of any kind. I suspect not.

 

sJ

[charlie962]

sj

Barber's book I know well (archive.org). Surgery on Trestles I don't and will look at; thanks

Charlie

Edited 17 February , 2019 by charlie962

[PRC]

6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Here is a list of some of the Assistant Surgeons I believe captured at Kut and my attempt to identify the unit to which attached before surrender.

 

Assistant Surgeons, Indian Subordinate Medical Department

Believed captured at kut 29/4/16
Aquino    Frank                              104 HB RGA                  Adana Hospital 9/16
 

 

I had a quick look through the Norfolk Regiment related Kut-el-Amara resources I’ve obtained over the years looking for the likes of Bandsmen or attached to the RAMC but drew a blank. I then tried ‘A Kut Prisoner” by Harry Bishop, but a quick skim through only brought up one medical name, Captain Martin, I.M.S., who assisted Harry and his comrades in escaping.

 

I know you’re not interested in officers for this exercise, although John Donald Martin was captured at Kut-el-Amara on the 29th April 1916 according to report R.50068 at the International Committee of the Red Cross website.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2161206/708/50068/

(There are several other medical officers captured at the fall of Kut on that page).

 

Scrolling down a few pages:-

 

R.50072 has Medecin Assistant Frank Aquino, captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50108 has Medecin Docteur Partas Singh, 120 Regiment, captured Kut 29/04/16

R.50113 Soldat Sitaram and Soldat Kinjech, 106 Ambulance Domestique,Soldat Bula, 2nd Ambulance and Soldat Killu, Domestique Ambulance, all captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50114 has a Soldat Victor Patrick Lazarus, Oxford Regiment domestique, captured Kut 29/04/16

R.50115 has a Soldat Suka, Ambulance and Soldats Tulsi Kahar and Dahru Kahar, 2nd Ambulance, all captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50116 has a Soldat Machander, 106 Ambulance, captured Kut 29/04/16

 

And up

 

R.50067 Officers of the RAMC plus Soldat Sundrum Tulkanum , 3 A. hospital general Anglais, captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50055 Caporal John Costello 8974 Red Cross Ambulance, captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50037 Soldat domestique Menteiro Caitan, 4th Ambulance, captured Kut 29/04/16.

R.50022 Volontaire Sochindronath Bose, Bengal Ambulance Corps, captured Kut 29/04/16.

(There are also many balayeurs, (sweepers), coolies, domestiques, servants and members of 'sections sanitaire' in there).

 

At this point I had the light-bulb moment. These reports were all coming from camps. Isn’t it likely that trained medical personal were being used in hospitals and so possibly be very difficult to track down – if indeed those records actually exist at the ICRC.

 

And from a soldiers perspective at the time of surrender he would most likely have reverted to using the parent unit he came from – after all that might be the surest way of getting the information to his family. So very unlikely ICRC records are going to show a man as attached to the RAMC from an infantry unit.  Additionally with the weakness of individual men towards the end of the siege, and the prevalence of contagious diseases, it’s likely this was a task that was frequently rotated.

 

So my next thought was the casualty lists printed in the local press. The edition of the Norwich Mercury dated 8th July 1916 lists included an additional official casualty list of men of the Norfolk Regiment who were believed to have been taken prisoners at the fall of Kut. These were Norfolk Regiment men who were attached to the Divisional Signals Company, to the Corps of Military Staff Clerks and to the Searchlight Section – but no RAMC.

 

You may fare better with other local papers or from personal memoirs mentioning individuals.

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

 

[charlie962]

Peter,

Very kind of you to take so much trouble and I follow your reasoning. All the domestic servants and sweepers are very hard to track. But I took the first name that had a service number and tried to follow that.

 

John Costello 8974 seems to be RG Costello 8974 of the (Indian) Motor Transport Corps and was indeed taken at Kut. Ancestry have his medal roll page. I think he was from Rangoon.  So this Transport / Ambulance link might suggest yet another masking of the actual work done by certain men. 

 

I have added him to my list of Medical personnell and will continue to look at some of the others.

 

The point you make about the men reverting to their parent unit fits with my research. I have a couple of men who were Hampshires but Orderlies for the Field Ambulance. They only appear in Casualty Lists and ICRC records as Hampshire. I have looked at some War Diaries for ADMS 6 Div for 1915 and one can see batches of men from the infantry Bns being attached as orderlies to the Hospital or FAs. But I still think there must be some pure RAMC people out there? Perhaps I need to spend more time on some of those obscure medical war diaries that often throw up suprising detail.

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

Bengal Ambulance Corps is another possible thread. On that excellent Fibis site I see this:

                           

 

Was this man taken at Kut ?

 

Peter, you had a name for a BAC man and I had one in my post 5

 

A couple of extracts from Amitav Ghosh's articles (which are fascinating), about the BAC

and here is the ICRC card for the original author

              

 

 

Charlie

Edited 17 February , 2019 by charlie962

[MaureenE]

16 hours ago, charlie962 said:

 

perhaps a little gem may come from

@Maureene

Unfortunately I can't add much.

 

There was a book published by a doctor in the Indian Medical Service, but he was an officer

Captured at Kut, Prisoner of the Turks: The Great War Diaries of Colonel William Spackman 

https://www.amazon.com/Captured-Kut-Prisoner-Turks-Spackman/dp/184415873X

This was edited from a typescript document at the Imperial War Museums. Catalogue number Documents.7665

 

Regarding William Fratel. who is on your list, see 

Cheers

Maureen

[charlie962]

Maureen, thanks for replying.

I have Spackman's book already.

The thread you link above has its last post made by me in 2017 where I provided some sketchy biographical details. I never heard any more!

 

Would you know if the whole text of 'On to Baghdad' is available ( in English) ? I would like to see what other names are mentioned as well as read the full story.

 

I couldn't see any War Diary at Discovery National Archives for the Bengal Ambulance Corps.

 

Charlie

[PRC]

15 hours ago, charlie962 said:

But I still think there must be some pure RAMC people out there?

 

This is just a thought, but other than officers, do there? The 6th Division of the Indian Army was a pre-war Regular Army unit, with it's Medical Services provided in the field by the Indian Medical Service. As with all Native Units it would have had a leavening of White European NCO's, but they would have been IMS, not RAMC. Given the low priority of the Mesoptamian Theatre, if it came to replacing IMS staff lost through attrrition, I suspect the powers that be would look to the IMS to backfill rather than send out RAMC staff. RAMC staff would most likely have arrived with the new Divisions being deployed but whether any were reassigned or volunteered would be a possible line of investigation. Even then, like the Territorial Force volunteers used from in Theatre units to bring the 2nd Norfolks up to strength, I suspect such men would be shown as RAMC attached IMS ratrher than straight RAMC.

 

The nearest thing to an ORBAT for the units encircled at Kut that I've seen shows the following.

Medical Units:

All Medical Units were under the overall command of Colonel P. Hehir, Indian Medical Service.

No. 2 Field Ambulance.

No. 4 Field Ambulance.

No. 9 Indian General Hospital.

No. 106 Field Ambulance.

No. 157 Indian Stationary Hospital.

Half No. 3A British General Hospital Officers' Hospital.

One section, Veterinary Field Hospital (Captain H. Stephenson).

 

Those all look to be IMS rather than their British Army equivalent, (but I could be wrong!). Added to which in the days before Kut was encircled wounded men were moved on and undoubtely some of the medical men would have accompanied them. One would hope that General Townsend didn't anticpate being surrounded and so would expect them to returm when supplies and reinforcements came up. The force at Kut could therefore have started the siege low on European other ranks in the medical units anyway.

 

15 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Bengal Ambulance Corps is another possible thread.                            

 

I can't find anyone from this unit on CWGC, which given the rates of death in other units seems a bit implausible. As you can see from the ORBAT they are not included in the Military hierarchy and so may have been regarded as civilians. I suspect they turn up in the ICRC records and even CWGC may have them on the Concertration reports anotated as not a War Grave. Given the revisions that have happened over the years could be a massive In from the Cold project right there !

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 18 February , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[charlie962]

Peter, that is good thinking. The Orbat is very helpful. I was dwelling on this overnight and was coming towards the same conclusion. Hence why I find a number of ISMD Assistant Surgeons, some sub assistant surgeons, the Bengal Ambulance Corps ( which, due to their planned riverboat sinking en route from India 1915, became the Bengal Stationary Hospital at Amara - no War Diary either) and other clearly Indian units.

 

My quest for British ORs was prompted by Sandes's figures of Medical establishment inside Kut March 1916 of (off the top of my head) some 40 BORs and 60 IORs. But as we've discussed above, these BORs may be attached orderlies from Infantry units. Wouldn't they have wanted to keep their 'medical' status to increase their chances of exchange or slightly better treatment ?

 

Thank you to those who've replied so far. It helps me to have all these prompts and makes me look afresh at notes I'd missed or forgotten. i have several BAC names to follow up from the Amitav Ghosh link.

 

Charlie

 

edit:  these little snippets are useful- BMJ 24/6/16

Edited 18 February , 2019 by charlie962

[seaJane]

17 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Surgery on Trestles I don't and will look at; thanks

Charlie

Charlie, 

Have just found my copy of Surgery on Trestles if you would like to borrow it.

sJ

[charlie962]

sJ a very kind offer but I suspect I should buy my own as copies seem readily available and within my pocket money allowance. In the meantime are there any useful names in it ?

 

I have found the War Diary of Bengal Ambulance Corps which became Bengal Stationary Hospital. It is cunningly disguised as '70 Indian Stationary Hospital'. I shall download it now and see what it tells me. A sneek preview on Discovery shows a Nominal Roll of a detachment of men from the Corps sent to the Front in Sept 1915- could be very helpful.

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

Just a note that the BAC War Diary helpfully has a list of 37 men who volunteered (they were already volunteers!) to go up to the Front from Amara and partcipated in the Battle of Ctesiphon, attached to No 2 Field Ambulance. 12 men subsequently returned to Amara and 6 men were reported missing believed PoW during the retreat. The rest  (19) will presumably have been holed up inside Kut then taken PoW. The few men named in the Amitav Gosh blog are readily identifiable in the list. I shall try to trace some of these men. They probably all came from Calcutta area and were generally from professional families. Sound a bit like the early RedCross ambulance volunteers from UK ?

Charlie

[seaJane]

Looking at Begg: he arrived in the Shatt-al-Arab aboard HS VARELA on 31 May 16, after the Kut garrison surrendered, so I'm not sure he'll mention any of "your" men, Charlie.

 

But I'll keep reading if you like.

sJ

 

 

[MaureenE]

There is an interesting account of Sisir Sarbadhikari and his book Abhi Le Baghdad (or On To Baghdad) in

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=LvxsDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA256

India, Empire, and First World War Culture: Writings, Images, and Songs by Santanu Das page 256 onwards. Google Books limited view.

 

Unfortunately not all the pages are displayed, but the other pages give you some  indication.

 

The following link is also about the book and mentions translation by  Upasana Datta. The text of the link states "The above extract', but if an extract is there I can't see it, or open a link to it.

http://sourcebook.cegcproject.eu/items/show/177

 

If there has been a translation of the whole book, I couldn't see any indication that it has been published

 

I also came across this link On to Baghdad   [by Amitav Ghosh] As far as I can tell it's exactly the same as his blog of that name, but set out as one article, not a series of blogs.

https://www.amitavghosh.com/docs/On to Baghdad.pdf

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

[charlie962]

Maureen, many thanks for that . I was looking only last night at that same Santanu Das publication that came out in 2018 via the same google link!. It covers other Indian Army aspects that interest me  but price seems to be well over 50pounds so over my budget for now although the epub version is more affordable. At this stage I am concentrating on looking for other names to complete my lists. I note that another member of the BAC published a history in the '20s. The issue of the military (by British classification) standing of Bengalis is equally fascinating. Typical of how researching one subject can lead me off the main road and risk me getting lost !

 

For now I don't think I can get further than the BAC list I have noted above from the War Diary and I will try to follow up the other medical units in the orbat that Peter noted above.

 

I've started with No2 Field Ambulance. (to which the BAC was possibly attached). Amazingly their War Diary for the last month of the siege has survived and has been digitised. It must have been smuggled out with one of the exchanged PoWs**. It gives a glimpse of the deterioration in health of the garrison with men being brought into the FA in a state of collapse due to starvation/ lack of correct diet. This FA held typically some 30 BORs and 180 IORs. Almost all the IORs were suffering from scurvy. There are names for the BORs (but not IORs) who become 'dangerously ill' or die. They are mainly 1 OBLI and 2 Dorsets, which may be of interest who follow those Bns.

 

Note that when the Exchange of prisoners was made on 5th May some 90% of the IORs in this FA were released but only half the BORs. This was typical of this exchange, in which the Turkish deliberately favoured the IORs, regardless of gravity of illness/wounds, in the hope of encouraging them to turn, which they didn't.

 

Charlie

 

**edit- I note from a service record for one patient that this FA also got their Admissions Register back to Basra. I wonder what happened to that ??

Edited 20 February , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

just to note I've added 3 more names to my listing of Assistant Surgeons in post 5.