JMB1943 Posted 14 February , 2019 Share Posted 14 February , 2019 My first new bayonet in a long time, and it was bought to fill a hole in the collection. This is a Patt. 1907 manufactured by Remington in Oct., 1915 and is one of 100,000 from that contract. The blade is dulled per UK specification. Left ricasso shows 1907/ REMINGTON in a circle/ 10 15 (NOT 10 '15, as would be seen on a British made piece; was not previously aware of that). Right ricasso shows the broad arrow (Brit. Govt. acceptance), X-bend proof mark, and crown/A6/E, crown/2/A inspection stamps in America by British inspectors; also shows a '23 (1923) re-inspection stamp. This is all good & normal. The scabbard is, in some ways, more interesting. The locket & chape are both figured (curved edges) and both blackened, and the leather is also very black-looking. The locket is of the very early type with the rivets ground flush, and the tear-drop frog button. It is marked crown/3V and probably E (not visible under crud at staple). The chape bears the RE in a circle stamp of REmington. The leather is stamped M/58 and W = waxed, both high up near the seam. I know that M/58 is a manufacturer code from WW2, and have searched Skennerton's BC&B but cannot locate M/58. Can somebody identify the M/58 code ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 14 February , 2019 Share Posted 14 February , 2019 Hello JMB, M 58 would be Jabez Cliff & co Ltd, according to this source here.....http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/brit_bayo.html Very nice find😀. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2019 Dave, You are the man! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 February , 2019 Share Posted 14 February , 2019 Skennerton also has another very useful book out regarding markings and other interesting stuff, called "The Broad Arrow". Amongst other things it provides the comprehensive listing of all the WW2 supplier's codes. M58 = J.Cliff & Co. Ltd., Walsall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 14 February , 2019 Share Posted 14 February , 2019 22 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Dave, You are the man! Regards, JMB You're welcome sir, as you say, an interesting scabbard given the mix of parts. Funily enough, found my first one of the year today also...nowhere as desirable as yours though! 25 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: Skennerton also has another very useful book out regarding markings and other interesting stuff, called "The Broad Arrow". Amongst other things it provides the comprehensive listing of all the WW2 supplier's codes. M58 = J.Cliff & Co. Ltd., Walsall One that's not in the library yet..but on the list, if ever one pops up at a reasonable price....after securing both the lee Enfield story and B&CB last year I seem to be spending as much on books as I do on the bayonets themselves. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2019 S>S &Dave, Thanks for reminding me of Broad Arrow. I had been looking for it, but If is available at all it costs an arm & a leg! I wish that Skennerton would reprint some of his books, at a reasonable price. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 15 February , 2019 Share Posted 15 February , 2019 Hi JMB, nice find ! Very rare here in the uk,in the relatively short space of my collecting (15 months) I’ve only seen two for sale, one of which you’ve already seen ! and the other one is still with its dealer( £325, when I last looked) regards R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 February , 2019 Share Posted 15 February , 2019 15 hours ago, Dave66 said: ... I seem to be spending as much on books as I do on the bayonets themselves Well worth it, in my opinion! I still have a few to get - German stuff, at around Eu 100 or so, but what I have has been extraordinarily useful My most expensive outlay was a full set of Carter's German bayonets, bought over a 2-3 years period - and in near constant use! JMB - that looks to be a nice one! As you know I have given up collecting GB ones, well, except for P.1888's when these turn up over here... Just bought one of those, but nothing out-of the ordinary about it... Always tempted by a P.1907 HQ at a reasonable price though - one, an Enfield, currently being offered to me at USD 360 equivalent, cheap for Turkey!, but will say 'No'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 15 February , 2019 Share Posted 15 February , 2019 Here’s my Remington.was lucky to pick it up with matching (Remington ) scabbard and Frog. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 11 hours ago, trajan said: Well worth it, in my opinion! I still have a few to get - German stuff, at around Eu 100 or so, but what I have has been extraordinarily useful My most expensive outlay was a full set of Carter's German bayonets, bought over a 2-3 years period - and in near constant use! JMB - that looks to be a nice one! As you know I have given up collecting GB ones, well, except for P.1888's when these turn up over here... Just bought one of those, but nothing out-of the ordinary about it... Always tempted by a P.1907 HQ at a reasonable price though - one, an Enfield, currently being offered to me at USD 360 equivalent, cheap for Turkey!, but will say 'No'... I assume that since his death in 2002 that the copyright in Carter's books is with his estate. Its a great pity that no one has organized the purchase of the rights to republish some of his works. Cheers Ross https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1400504/Anthony-Carter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 1 hour ago, Chasemuseum said: I assume that since his death in 2002 that the copyright in Carter's books is with his estate. Its a great pity that no one has organized the purchase of the rights to republish some of his works. Cheers Ross https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1400504/Anthony-Carter.html I have been told that the copyright and all Carter's papers went to the son of the founder of International Military Antiques, who supplied him with much of the information he used. I did write to them once asking if there was a card index or similar of his work that could be examined but received no reply - possibly because I panned a reprint they sold me of Carter's vol 2, which was published in 2001... This was in their stocks, and the photographs were far too dark to be really useful, so I had to look around carefully for an original volume 2. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 On 14 February 2019 at 23:25, JMB1943 said: S>S &Dave, Thanks for reminding me of Broad Arrow. I had been looking for it, but If is available at all it costs an arm & a leg! I wish that Skennerton would reprint some of his books, at a reasonable price. Regards, JMB I'm in agreement about the reprints, but now I tent to treat the books themselves as just as much an investment as I do the bayonets etc that I collect. In fact, as sourcing reasonably priced pointy things and most things Great War things has become harder, I've started to collect 1st edition regimental histories and some of those prices can make your eyes water in comparison....need more bookcases now though! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 2 hours ago, Dave66 said: I'm in agreement about the reprints, but now I tent to treat the books themselves as just as much an investment as I do the bayonets etc that I collect. In fact, as sourcing reasonably priced pointy things and most things Great War things has become harder, I've started to collect 1st edition regimental histories and some of those prices can make your eyes water in comparison....need more bookcases now though! Dave. Eye-watering, some of these dusty book things make the pointy items look cheap by comparison. On 15/02/2019 at 10:25, JMB1943 said: S>S &Dave, Thanks for reminding me of Broad Arrow. I had been looking for it, but If is available at all it costs an arm & a leg! I wish that Skennerton would reprint some of his books, at a reasonable price. Regards, JMB Ian has reprinted some of his books. Hopefully he will be at the next Penrith Arms fair, and I will suggest this one to him. All of his books have been relatively short print runs and the economics of a reprint can be a bit of a problem Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 Poor JMB, we are going WELL off his topic! Apologies! But yes, it is a problem with so many of these often privately printed ones in short runs - Mike Rose of P.1888/1903 and (so far) first P.1907 ones will do print on demand as it were, which can then be bound as hardbacks. My own gripe is Bruce Karem, who published German S84/98 Bayonet Vol 1 1908-1933 in 2006 - I have written to him direct and repeatedly stating that a reprint is needed but no success yet... Yes, if anyone has a copy to spare???!!! One thing about living in Turkey, a country with low level incomes, is a practice I do not condone but I do understand, that imported or out of print book prices are so high my students will club together to buy a copy of text book costing USD 100 and then get it photocopied at TL 50 = USD 10 each. Yes, even my own books....!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 16 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2019 8 hours ago, trajan said: Poor JMB, we are going WELL off his topic! Apologies! But yes, it is a problem with so many of these often privately printed ones in short runs - Mike Rose of P.1888/1903 and (so far) first P.1907 ones YES! I am going to be the manager of Hijackers Utd and you are all in the 1st XI.....in the Premier League, no less Richard, very sweet bayo & scabbard; love that red-brown leather. Dave, don’t tease us...post some photos of your latest. Trajan, has Michael Rose put out the P.07 book? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 8 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: YES! I am going to be the manager of Hijackers Utd and you are all in the 1st XI.....in the Premier League, no less Richard, very sweet bayo & scabbard; love that red-brown leather. Dave, don’t tease us...post some photos of your latest. Trajan, has Michael Rose put out the P.07 book? Regards, JMB The latest conundrum is below...very poor in comparison but interesting....poor quality finish, sabpndblasted to hell but £24.50😀. I have an idea as to the origin....but may not be Great War related! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 17 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2019 Dave, I don't think that I have seen one where the pitting is so fine. Out in a desert sandstorm perhaps? Although the grips & screws appear untouched; maybe were replaced. A sliver of the tang is just visible as a silver line, so perhaps grips were removed to clean it up in a sand-blaster? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 17 February , 2019 Share Posted 17 February , 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, JMB1943 said: Dave, I don't think that I have seen one where the pitting is so fine. Out in a desert sandstorm perhaps? Although the grips & screws appear untouched; maybe were replaced. A sliver of the tang is just visible as a silver line, so perhaps grips were removed to clean it up in a sand-blaster? Regards, JMB I think it's certainly had some form of rust removal carried out, and not sure about the grips as much cruder and fatter, to the extent that the screws only just reach the nuts. Cross guard edges are much sharper, as if it's just come out of the press hall and not finished properly with the pommel just not the same finish as a Great War piece. The clearance hole still has a slight burr to both sides as if it's been drilled quickly and is more central in the pommel, only just catching with the end of the mortise slot. The blade only has two marks remaining, the bend test and a feint broad arrow to the right, not common in this configuration on Great War pieces but seen regularly on WW2 w.s.c. examples. May end up as a donor piece, interesting as a puzzle but no where near as nice as your new one😀. Edited 17 February , 2019 by Dave66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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