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Messina medals

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aim

How many types of commemorative medals for the Messina, Italy, earthquake were there?

 

Did Royal Marines have to apply for them, and were they allowed to wear them?

 

aim

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RaySearching

What is the connection between The 1908 Messina earthquake and the Great War ?

 

If none then the subject is off topic

 

Ray

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aim

Quite a few men with Messina medals served in the Great War, and I have seen topics include the QSA medal in this Forum.

 

aim

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RaySearching
16 minutes ago, aim said:

Quite a few men with Messina medals served in the Great War, and I have seen topics include the QSA medal in this Forum.

 

The difference being that the QSA was a campaign medal the medals awarded after the Messina earthquake were civil decorations 

awarded by the Italian King although many R.N. mercantile marines and soldiers were awarded them

 

Ray

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Terry_Reeves

Aim

 

Thanks for your post. I was aware of the Messina medal  but have never given  a thought to any WW1 connections. I look forward to your research.

 

TR

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RaySearching

Aim

you may find answers to your questions in the following book

1747020998_cd.JPG.5162fc0f337bc19b36986d3a0fc20abc.JPG

 

Ray

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ARABIS

There was only one type of Messina Medal, issued in silver, and Royal permission was given in 1912 for the medal to be worn in uniform. Nearly 5,000 medals were awarded to all the crews of the battleships DUNCAN and EXMOUTH, the cruisers EURYALUS, LANCASTER, MINERVA and SUTLEJ, and the destroyer BOXER, also to those of the crews who had actually landed from the battleship CANOPUS and the cruisers PHILOMEL and ABOUKIR. In addition some 400 medals were awarded to members of the mercantile marine and 12 to the army.

From Collecting Medals and Decorations by Alec A. Purves.

So any Royal Marines [RMA & RMLI] serving in the qualifying ships would be entitled to the medal.

 

ARABIS.

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seaJane

Also often awarded, at least to medical staff - I have several in the collection at work - was the Italian Red Cross.

 

The Royal Naval Hospital at Malta was awarded the institutional medal in bronze (now on display at Bighi) and I believe Haslar was awarded the silver institutional medal. If so, it seems to have gone missing when the hospital museum was hit by a bomb in 1941.

 

I have a copy of Angels in Blue Jackets: the Navy at Messina, 1908 (J.W. WIlson, R. Perkins. Chippenham: Picton, 1985) somewhere, and I believe it includes a complete roll for the Messina Earthquake Medal. It'd be an interesting exercise to go through that and check GW service.

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Muerrisch
1 hour ago, RaySearching said:

What is the connection between The 1908 Messina earthquake and the Great War ?

 

If none then the subject is off topic

 

Ray

On the other hand there is a massive and superb thread occupying the niche 1902 to 1914 regarding uniform details that the Mods, very wisely, have never objected to, and thus enriched our knowledge of that formative period.

We really cannot limit the Forum to August 1914 up to Christmas 1918 for very good reason.

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RaySearching
11 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

On the other hand there is a massive and superb thread occupying the niche 1902 to 1914 regarding uniform details that the Mods, very wisely, have never objected to, and thus enriched our knowledge of that formative period.

We really cannot limit the Forum to August 1914 up to Christmas 1918 for very good reason.

 

Valid point taken on board

Regards Ray

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Muerrisch

A gentleman, sir.

 

[not a lot of mileage in being GRUMPY these days .............                               ]

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Coldstreamer

I don't see the connection to ww1 sorry, this is what skindles is for 

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seaJane

I think my post raised a distinct possibility of a GW link.

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Muerrisch
34 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

I don't see the connection to ww1 sorry, this is what skindles is for 

 

If you feel strongly, report it to the Mods and let them decide. Somehow I don't envisage the Messina subject covering as much bandwidth as discussion on eligibility.

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The Inspector
1 hour ago, seaJane said:

I think my post raised a distinct possibility of a GW link.

I hadn't got a clue what the forum was discussing so

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/colonial/messina_earthquake_medal_1908.htm now I have. Yes SJ you are right, it does have a full list.

Regards Barry

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keithmroberts

Regarding relevance, a report has been made, and we are discussing it.

 

 

EDIT:  it was a close call, but we have decided that there is a sufficient potential connection in this case to let it be. That is of course not to be taken as a precedent.

 

Keith

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aim

Thank you to Arabis for answering my questions, and thank you also to Muerrisch for your kind defence.

 

aim

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58 Div Mule

I have a group of WW1 medals to a Pte in the RMLI that includes a Messina Medal (HMS Sutlej). I see no reason why discussion shouldn't be included on the forum?

 

The award is recorded on his service record ADM 159 TNA.

 

Fevyer and Wilson authored an excellent book listing British recipients "Angels in Blue Jackets". Many subsequently served in The Great War.

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seaJane
29 minutes ago, 58 Div Mule said:

Fevyer and Wilson authored an excellent book listing British recipients "Angels in Blue Jackets". Many subsequently served in The Great War.

As mentioned in my post #8, the authors in fact being Wilson and Perkins. (Fevyer wrote several books on awards and medals, but I've not seen one by him concerning Messina.)

 

sJ

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58 Div Mule

Sea-Jane you're quite right.

 

I've dug out my copy of Wilson and Perkin's book and note that four of HMS Sutlej's RM detachment (recipients of the Messina Medal ) were killed in the Great War.

 

Ply 12773 Pte Gray R,

Ply 13552 Pte Lynch W,

Ply 9061 Lcpl McMillan J 

Ply 13266 Pte McQueen W J.

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seaJane

:poppy: Thank you, 58 DM.

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ARABIS
18 hours ago, aim said:

Thank you to Arabis for answering my questions, and thank you also to Muerrisch for your kind defence.

 

aim

You are most welcome. Attached is a photo of the WW1 trio, Messina Medal, and Constantinople Medal awarded to Colour Sergeant J. Pickering R.M.L.I.

 

pickering.jpg

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Keith_history_buff

I saw this post, and thought it pertinent insofar as there are parallels with a post about the army and the Boer War, namely: just how many of those recipients were still serving, or re-enlisted during WW1? A general discussion about the circumstances of 1908 would be off topic, however.

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Keith_history_buff

The following men appear on the Royal Marine medal roll as Messina medal recipients.

 

 

Last name First name Born Died Medal/Event
Broadbent Albert Edward 1915 1914
Brown Roland 1919 1914
Hanson Francis John 1916 1914
Johnson Clive 1915 1914
McMillan John 1917 1914
Ward John William 1919 1914-20

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58 Div Mule

Back to Wilson and Perkin's.

 

481 Marines from HMS Duncan, Euryalus, Exmouth, Lancaster, Minerva and Sutlej were issued the Messina Medal. 3,463 RN personnel from the same ships also received the award.

 

From my notes a number of marines awarded the Messia Medal were killed during the Great War, I've given the names of four from HMS Sutlej in post #20 above.

 

Ch11534 Cpl Eldridge T & Ch7356 Bugler Heffernan C were both killed during the Zeebrugge Raid of 23 April 1918.

 

HMS Sutjej was acting as a Boys Training Ship and had on board 168 Boys 1st Class.  No doubt these 17 year olds offered assistance to the people of Messina following the death of an estimated 160,000 people in the devastating earthquake of 28 December 1908.

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