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iristaylor

Great Yarmouth Training Camp?

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iristaylor

Fellow researchers

 

I apologise if this thread is not in the correct category.

 

Family legend has it that my grandfather Robert James Burlingham, ASC and Corps of Lancers (as per MIC) was "trained to ride bareback at Gt Yarmouth, before marching through Beccles for embarkation".

 

I appreciate that family memories are vague now after so long, but does anyone have any info that there was a camp of any sort at Gt Yarmouth?  Vague family memories also say there was an army hospital at Gt Yarmouth?  

 

I have tried the internet without success but know how many of you have lots of information that is hard to find.

 

With thanks

 

Iris

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PRC

Off the top of my head the Racecourse was used in both the Great War and World War 2 as an Army Camp, plus there was a Drill Hall and the Royal Garrision Artillery maintained a Volunteer Coastal Defence Battery there. There were numerous camps up and down the coast - remember Great Yarmouth may simply have been the postal address. Not aware specifically of an Army Hospital, but part of Great Yarmouth General Hospital was given over to Military usage and of course there is the Naval Hospital.

 

There may be more in contemporary local newspapers. They may give details on whether the Workhouse Hospital was given over to the Army like so many others in the County.

 

Unfortunately my access to the County Archive is via the Local Studies section in the central Norwich Library. The microfilm copies of newspapers they hold there don't include the east coast area. From past experience there is at least one war time title, the Yarmouth Independent, available via the British Newspaper Archive, (BNA). As far as I'm aware the bolt on access \ premium subscription to newspaper archives simply recycle that source.  The BNA is not the most user friendly source, so while you can subscribe directly, what I'd recommend is try it out for free first at your local library.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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George Rayner

Apparently in the 1870's there was a Great Yarmouth Army Lunatic Hospital-as well as an Army Hospital up to 1897 according to 'The Scotsman'

 

Can find no GW reference currently

 

George

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iristaylor
2 hours ago, PRC said:

Off the top of my head the Racecourse was used in both the Great War and World War 2 as an Army Camp, plus there was a Drill Hall and the Royal Garrision Artillery maintained a Volunteer Coastal Defence Battery there. There were numerous camps up and down the coast - remember Great Yarmouth may simply have been the postal address. Not aware specifically of an Army Hospital, but part of Great Yarmouth General Hospital was given over to Military usage and of course there is the Naval Hospital.

 

There may be more in contemporary local newspapers. They may give details on whether the Workhouse Hospital was given over to the Army like so many others in the County.

 

Unfortunately my access to the County Archive is via the Local Studies section in the central Norwich Library. The microfilm copies of newspapers they hold there don't include the east coast area. From past experience there is at least one war time title, the Yarmouth Independent, available via the British Newspaper Archive, (BNA). As far as I'm aware the bolt on access \ premium subscription to newspaper archives simply recycle that source.  The BNA is not the most user friendly source, so while you can subscribe directly, what I'd recommend is try it out for free first at your local library.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Hi Peter

 

Many thanks for your reply.  I had no idea there was training camps up and down the coast - its a long shot but the racecourse would have been an ideal place to train soldiers to ride.  My Grandad could already ride and one of the only photos I have of him, shows him in about 1912 astride a grey hunter.  

 

I live in Norfolk and have visited the library before but will follow up some local newspapers if possible.  I have used up my free access to BNA and it is rather expensive to search, however I may have to give it a go!

 

Iris

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PRC

Iris,

 

If you are Norfolk County Library member then you have unlimited access to the BNA when you are onsite at any branch, plus The Times Online archive. The only limit is for usage of the computer but in most places it's at least two hours. As an added bonus you get remote access, (i.e. from your own device) to the News Vault, which covers up to 1900, plus the The Times Archive. If you sign up for Open Library you cannot also access most of the branch sites for longers hours, including usually Sundays - it's just there is no librarian onsite.

 

I keep meaning to visit the Great Yarmouth library to see if they have the Great Yarmouth papers on micro-film, otherwise it's the County Archive at County Hall which is not the easiest of places to access. I'd appreciate it if you let me know if you have any success.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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seaJane
3 hours ago, George Rayner said:

Apparently in the 1870's there was a Great Yarmouth Army Lunatic Hospital

 

The Navy actually opened a lunatic asylum on the site in 1811. After that it was taken over as an Army barracks, returning to lunatic asylum use in 1844, but after the Crimean War, in May 1854, the Admiralty repossessed the site, but for quite a while it remained as a convalescent home for soldiers. In 1863 the Admiralty finally reclaimed and expanded the buildings, the lunacy unit at RNH Haslar having been outgrown (although the Haslar unit was still in use in the GW). RNH Great Yarmouth makes its first appearance in "Health of the Navy" in 1868 - other information is from http://www.rnhgy.org.uk/index.asp?pageid=385947.

 

I too can't find any RNH GY material for the GW period at Kew, but Google revealed: "Following its closure, the Hospital's records were held by the James Paget University Hospital at Gorleston. They are now thought to have been mostly destroyed although admission registers for certain years are held by the Norfolk Record Office at Norwich." Whoever posted that took the information from the link above, which further specifies the records available as including "the medical register for 3 January 1907 to 13 July 1916."

 

sJ

Edited by seaJane

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George Rayner

Thank you SeaJane for background info. Always useful

 

George

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kenf48

Literally hundreds of troops were stationed in G.Yarmouth/Beccles/Lowestoft, it was the front line of home defence, as you are probably aware Yarmouth was shelled on 3 November 1914.  Whether or not this is why your grandfather enlisted we don't know but he appears one of a number of men from Norfolk who were recruited to the ASC in Great Yarmouth in November 1914.  So perhaps we're looking for an ASC Training Company that was stationed there.  There was a remount station at the racecourse stables at South Denes at the beginning of the war.

 

T3/028721 - 028731 were posted to the BEF on various dates 17/07/15 to 19/07/15.  T3/028728 Holden was from Thetford and some of his record has survived. He attested at Woolwich which was the main depot for the ASC.  Unfortunately his record does not show whether or not he returned to East Anglia.  He went overseas with 155 Company, Divisional Train, HQ 56 Brigade,19th (Western) Division 18/07/1914 but his service record shows embarkation on the 'Empress Queen' 17/07/1915.  Your grandfather shows entering a theatre of war 17/07/1915 on the Lancers Roll, who would have referenced his service record.  The Brigade war diary has an Appendix which shows the embarkation details of the various units in the Division.

 

I've not investigated your grandfather's transfer date, though once again he appears to be in a group of Drivers transferred from the ASC.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by kenf48

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iristaylor
On 10/02/2019 at 22:29, PRC said:

Iris,

 

If you are Norfolk County Library member then you have unlimited access to the BNA when you are onsite at any branch, plus The Times Online archive. The only limit is for usage of the computer but in most places it's at least two hours. As an added bonus you get remote access, (i.e. from your own device) to the News Vault, which covers up to 1900, plus the The Times Archive. If you sign up for Open Library you cannot also access most of the branch sites for longers hours, including usually Sundays - it's just there is no librarian onsite.

 

I keep meaning to visit the Great Yarmouth library to see if they have the Great Yarmouth papers on micro-film, otherwise it's the County Archive at County Hall which is not the easiest of places to access. I'd appreciate it if you let me know if you have any success.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter,  

I have had time to re-read your post.  Its very helpful indeed as I had no idea that you could use the Library for BNA and other papers.  I havent explored papers much so far but will definitely go the the Library in March.  I  use the Archive at County Hall often and dont find it too difficult to access information - I ask the staff a lot!  I will let you know if I find anything useful.

Many thanks for your help.

Iris

 

On 10/02/2019 at 22:59, seaJane said:

 

The Navy actually opened a lunatic asylum on the site in 1811. After that it was taken over as an Army barracks, returning to lunatic asylum use in 1844, but after the Crimean War, in May 1854, the Admiralty repossessed the site, but for quite a while it remained as a convalescent home for soldiers. In 1863 the Admiralty finally reclaimed and expanded the buildings, the lunacy unit at RNH Haslar having been outgrown (although the Haslar unit was still in use in the GW). RNH Great Yarmouth makes its first appearance in "Health of the Navy" in 1868 - other information is from http://www.rnhgy.org.uk/index.asp?pageid=385947.

 

I too can't find any RNH GY material for the GW period at Kew, but Google revealed: "Following its closure, the Hospital's records were held by the James Paget University Hospital at Gorleston. They are now thought to have been mostly destroyed although admission registers for certain years are held by the Norfolk Record Office at Norwich." Whoever posted that took the information from the link above, which further specifies the records available as including "the medical register for 3 January 1907 to 13 July 1916."

 

sJ

Many thanks SJ

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iristaylor
On 11/02/2019 at 12:35, kenf48 said:

Literally hundreds of troops were stationed in G.Yarmouth/Beccles/Lowestoft, it was the front line of home defence, as you are probably aware Yarmouth was shelled on 3 November 1914.  Whether or not this is why your grandfather enlisted we don't know but he appears one of a number of men from Norfolk who were recruited to the ASC in Great Yarmouth in November 1914.  So perhaps we're looking for an ASC Training Company that was stationed there.  There was an ASC unit at Beccles.

 

T3/028721 - 028731 were posted to the BEF on various dates 17/07/15 to 19/07/15.  T3/028728 Holden was from Thetford and some of his record has survived. He attested at Woolwich which was the main depot for the ASC.  Unfortunately his record does not show whether or not he returned to East Anglia.  He went overseas with 155 Company, Divisional Train, HQ 56 Brigade,19th (Western) Division 18/07/1914 but his service record shows embarkation on the 'Empress Queen' 17/07/1915.  Your grandfather shows entering a theatre of war 17/07/1915 on the Lancers Roll, who would have referenced his service record.  The Brigade war diary has an Appendix which shows the embarkation details of the various units in the Division.

 

I've not investigated your grandfather's transfer date, though once again he appears to be in a group of Drivers transferred from the ASC.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ken

 

Thank you very much for this information - all of which I had not managed to find!!  I have saved Fred Holden's Service Record as it is almost certain that Grandad was with him  - both attesting and embarking on the same day.  The interesting thing is, Fred was from Kenninghall which is a village away from where Grandad was living.  Also, he was a Teamsman or Horseman and so was Grandad.  They probably knew each other.  Also of interest - I recently found Grandad was ill and repatriated from France and the record shows "115" Company ASC.  This Company had just gone to Salonika and I was doubtful if this was correct for Grandad as he was acutely ill at the time.  I think it may have been a typo and in fact his company was 155.

 

Between us all we are making a good job of putting together Grandad's probably service despite not having a record.

 

Iris

Just now, iristaylor said:

Hi Ken

 

Thank you very much for this information - all of which I had not managed to find!!  I have saved Fred Holden's Service Record as it is almost certain that Grandad was with him  - both attesting and embarking on the same day.  The interesting thing is, Fred was from Kenninghall which is a village away from where Grandad was living.  Also, he was a Teamsman or Horseman and so was Grandad.  They probably knew each other.  Also of interest - I recently found Grandad was ill and repatriated from France and the record shows "115" Company ASC.  This Company had just gone to Salonika and I was doubtful if this was correct for Grandad as he was acutely ill at the time.  I think it may have been a typo and in fact his company was 155.

 

Between us all we are making a good job of putting together Grandad's probably service despite not having a record.

 

Iris

PS - If you can shed any light on his transfer to the Lancers  - which appears to be at the end of the War - I would be very grateful.

 

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kenf48
On 14/02/2019 at 16:39, iristaylor said:

 

Between us all we are making a good job of putting together Grandad's probably service despite not having a record.

 

Iris

PS - If you can shed any light on his transfer to the Lancers  - which appears to be at the end of the War - I would be very grateful.

 

 

That’s what the forum is about.

 

16911 Pohl  was posted to the 1st Reserve Cavalry Regiment Curragh (1” RRC on Dvr. Burlingham 14-15 Star Roll) from Blackheath ASC Depot on 23 July 1918.  With the caveat of the caution needed when relying on one record we can assume Burlingham was transferred on or just before that date.  

Ireland was a ‘Home’ posting.  It is therefore possible Dvr. Burlingham did not serve in a theatre of war after he was invalided back to the U.K.

 

Ken

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iristaylor
13 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

That’s what the forum is about.

 

16911 Pohl  was posted to the 1st Reserve Cavalry Regiment Curragh (1” RRC on Dvr. Burlingham 14-15 Star Roll) from Blackheath ASC Depot on 23 July 1918.  With the caveat of the caution needed when relying on one record we can assume Burlingham was transferred on or just before that date.  

Ireland was a ‘Home’ posting.  It is therefore possible Dvr. Burlingham did not serve in a theatre of war after he was invalided back to the U.K.

 

Ken

 

 

Thank you for this Ken.  Can I ask where you found out about POHL? 

 

I am fascinated that you have found the date of 23 July 1918 as this fits in perfectly with Bob's Absent VL.  He was listed with the 490th Co ASC in the autumn AVL - which was taken in August.  490 had been in Kinmel in Aug 1918 but maybe they were in Blackheath in Jul 1918? 

 

Its a shame we have a missing year! - May 1917 to Jul/Aug 1918.

 

I wonder why batches of men got sent to The Curragh so close to the end of the War?  Presumably they would all have been put through the training to be Lancers?  I think there is a bit of family legend about bareback riding.

 

Bob seems to have remained with the 1st RRC and not been posted to a Lancers regiment so I agree with you that he probably never went back to a theatre of war after May 1917.

 

I am full of admiration for him - I wish I'd known him better - he was a very quiet, unassuming man who didnt talk much.  Like so many men of his generation, he had a hard life, both in and out of the Army.

 

I will see if I can find out anything else from my cousin......

 

Iris

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PRC
On 14/02/2019 at 16:39, iristaylor said:

 The interesting thing is, Fred was from Kenninghall which is a village away from where Grandad was living.  Also, he was a Teamsman or Horseman and so was Grandad.  They probably knew each other.  

Hi,

So is this the Robert James Burlingham, born Larling, Norfolk, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales as aged 21, and an unmarried Farm Labourer living at Turnpike Cottage, Larling? This was the household of his parents Francis and Mary.

Norfolk Bishops Transcripts has him down as born 26th March 1890 and baptised at Larling on May 18th 1890.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT7Y-ZRX

 

As late as the 1915 edition of the Norfolk Register of Electors, (prepared autumn 1914), father Francis is recorded as entitled to vote in Parliamentary, County Council and Civil Parish elections because he is the (male) householder of a dwelling hourse “Near the Turnpike Road”, Larling. Preparation of the 1916 and 1917 editions were cancelled in the UK and then you’re onto the 1918 edition which you have seen.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2HTN-XQX

 

If he his then I’ve done some research on a few villages in that area.

 

I suspect Newspaper coverage tends to be a combination of where they regularly sell copies, where they can get low cost coverage on a submitted article basis, and where they can spread the cost by repeating the article. Thus the Norwich Mercury and the Lowestoft Mercury were part of the same group and so the Norwich paper contains a lot of Lowestoft news but virtually nothing beyond air-raids and naval attacks for Yarmouth. Freelance pieces occur word for word or barely edited across all the titles.

 

None of the Great War era titles I’ve partially transcribed so far appear to mention Larling – that’s the Eastern Daily Press, Eastern Evening News, Norfolk Chronicle and Norwich Mercury. All have microfilm copies on the third floor of the Forum as well as at the County Archive.

 

Snetterton crops up from time to time in the Norwich Mercury, particularly in the edition dated Saturday July 7 1917 when there are two pictures in the weekly gallery “East Anglia’s Bravest and Best”. The relevant part of the caption reads “Dr. H.G. Burlingham, Royal Engineers, who has been twice wounded, and Private H.J. Burlingham, North Staffordshire, died of wounds. They are sons of Mr. and Mrs. Burlingham, Snetterton.”

Are they related at all? CWGC has “Son of Robert and Elizabeth Burlingham, of New Cottage, Snetterton, Attleborough, Norfolk,” for the man who died.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/381513/burlingham,-/

 

Banham crops up in the Eastern Daily Press and a few mentions in the Norwich Mercury.

 

East Harling regularly mentioned in the Eastern Daily Press, Eastern Evening Press and Norwich Mercury – in part because of the airfield which seems to have been a regular source of crashes and deaths.

 

Kenninghall – no mentions.

 

Illington – no mentions.

 

Going just a little bit south to the likes of North Lopham and South Lopham meant turning to the The Bury Free Press and the Diss Express – both available via the British Newspaper Archive.

 

Note, in my experience if you do look at the Yarmouth papers, (or any others), the Military Censor will have ensured there is almost never a reference to a specific unit, it’s whereabouts or when it moved. The kind of thing you may get are inter –unit sports days, social events, coroners inquests and cases before the local magistrates where enough names are given to be able to identify the unit from surviving soldiers records  \ soldiers who died \ the Army list. In the case of a unit within the Army Service Corps that’s likely to be a very tall order.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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kenf48
9 hours ago, iristaylor said:

 

 

Thank you for this Ken.  Can I ask where you found out about POHL? 

 

I am fascinated that you have found the date of 23 July 1918 as this fits in perfectly with Bob's Absent VL.  He was listed with the 490th Co ASC in the autumn AVL - which was taken in August.  490 had been in Kinmel in Aug 1918 but maybe they were in Blackheath in Jul 1918? 

 

Its a shame we have a missing year! - May 1917 to Jul/Aug 1918.

 

I wonder why batches of men got sent to The Curragh so close to the end of the War?  Presumably they would all have been put through the training to be Lancers?  I think there is a bit of family legend about bareback riding.

 

 

 

Pohl’s record is on FMP, probably in the pension records on Ancestry.

 

As noted you can’t read too much into one record but Pohl’s record does give us a reasonable date for his transfer from home service with the A.S.C.and transfer to the Cavalry. 

 

The Curragh was a major Base in Ireland, and the men would have been employed on garrison duties.

 

Ken 

 

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iristaylor
19 hours ago, PRC said:

Hi,

So is this the Robert James Burlingham, born Larling, Norfolk, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales as aged 21, and an unmarried Farm Labourer living at Turnpike Cottage, Larling? This was the household of his parents Francis and Mary.

Norfolk Bishops Transcripts has him down as born 26th March 1890 and baptised at Larling on May 18th 1890.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT7Y-ZRX

 

As late as the 1915 edition of the Norfolk Register of Electors, (prepared autumn 1914), father Francis is recorded as entitled to vote in Parliamentary, County Council and Civil Parish elections because he is the (male) householder of a dwelling hourse “Near the Turnpike Road”, Larling. Preparation of the 1916 and 1917 editions were cancelled in the UK and then you’re onto the 1918 edition which you have seen.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2HTN-XQX

 

If he his then I’ve done some research on a few villages in that area.

 

I suspect Newspaper coverage tends to be a combination of where they regularly sell copies, where they can get low cost coverage on a submitted article basis, and where they can spread the cost by repeating the article. Thus the Norwich Mercury and the Lowestoft Mercury were part of the same group and so the Norwich paper contains a lot of Lowestoft news but virtually nothing beyond air-raids and naval attacks for Yarmouth. Freelance pieces occur word for word or barely edited across all the titles.

 

None of the Great War era titles I’ve partially transcribed so far appear to mention Larling – that’s the Eastern Daily Press, Eastern Evening News, Norfolk Chronicle and Norwich Mercury. All have microfilm copies on the third floor of the Forum as well as at the County Archive.

 

Snetterton crops up from time to time in the Norwich Mercury, particularly in the edition dated Saturday July 7 1917 when there are two pictures in the weekly gallery “East Anglia’s Bravest and Best”. The relevant part of the caption reads “Dr. H.G. Burlingham, Royal Engineers, who has been twice wounded, and Private H.J. Burlingham, North Staffordshire, died of wounds. They are sons of Mr. and Mrs. Burlingham, Snetterton.”

Are they related at all? CWGC has “Son of Robert and Elizabeth Burlingham, of New Cottage, Snetterton, Attleborough, Norfolk,” for the man who died.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/381513/burlingham,-/

 

Banham crops up in the Eastern Daily Press and a few mentions in the Norwich Mercury.

 

East Harling regularly mentioned in the Eastern Daily Press, Eastern Evening Press and Norwich Mercury – in part because of the airfield which seems to have been a regular source of crashes and deaths.

 

Kenninghall – no mentions.

 

Illington – no mentions.

 

Going just a little bit south to the likes of North Lopham and South Lopham meant turning to the The Bury Free Press and the Diss Express – both available via the British Newspaper Archive.

 

Note, in my experience if you do look at the Yarmouth papers, (or any others), the Military Censor will have ensured there is almost never a reference to a specific unit, it’s whereabouts or when it moved. The kind of thing you may get are inter –unit sports days, social events, coroners inquests and cases before the local magistrates where enough names are given to be able to identify the unit from surviving soldiers records  \ soldiers who died \ the Army list. In the case of a unit within the Army Service Corps that’s likely to be a very tall order.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Thank you Peter.  Yes Robert was my Grandfather.  You have been thorough in your research of the newspapers. I have only made one brief visit to the Library to look at them but found it hard going!  The Snetterton Burlinghams are all related indirectly to me.  I think Pte H.J. wasmy Grandfather's cousin.  I havent spent much time of those branches of the family, finding it enough work to just get my own direct male line researched.

 

Always grateful for bits on information.  Good luck with your own researches.

 

Iris

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George Rayner

Just doing a quick Fidnmypast newspaper search and in Diss Express of 11th December 1925 there is a mention of a Robert Burlingham being called as a witness in a poaching case. He is mentioned as the horseman to Captain P Musker. Event taking place near East Harling station.

 

Don't know if this is your man or not.

 

George

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