Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Spielberg's '1917'


Mark Hone

Recommended Posts

Perceptive woman, Mrs H. Spot on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Perceptive woman, Mrs H. Spot on.

Absolutely.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to see it this afternoon, and would largely agree with Mark and Mrs H. I too thought the opening was particularly good moving through the trenches and then out into no man's land but I found myself wondering how they new which direction to go in across a desolate featureless landscape, it was quite a way into the film before one of the men got out a compass. It was interesting to see the staff car and trucks and the abandoned German trenches and dugouts were well done. All in all worth a look for the period detail and the cinematography but it could have been so much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/02/2020 at 20:47, Steven Broomfield said:

 

A truly excellent book.

 

Interestingly, however, I don't recall the officers in the book using the F word.

Just finished reading 'The Middle Parts of Fortune' and Captain Malet uses the F word once when berating the Adjutant over the overuse of his men on fatigues . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Black Maria said:

Just finished reading 'The Middle Parts of Fortune' and Captain Malet uses the F word once when berating the Adjutant over the overuse of his men on fatigues . 

 

But not to the men: to a fellow officer. My quibble was that the movie had officers effing and blinding at the men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a question, 

 

When Schofield escapes from Écoust-Saint-Mein he jumps in a river which becomes a raging torrent of rapids flowing through a rocky gorge, this seemed odd to me in a largely flat agricultural part of France, do such rapids exist?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mysterious mountain torrent has been queried by other commentators. I could only conclude that, having had his hand cut by barbed wire, been blown up, buried alive, temporarily blinded, shot and rendered unconscious for several hours, he must have been hallucinating by this stage of proceedings. 

Edited by Mark Hone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also the bit at the end when the officer tells him to go and get his wounds attended to, which of course prompts you to look and lo and behold his wounds have disappeared.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

There's also the bit at the end when the officer tells him to go and get his wounds attended to, which of course prompts you to look and lo and behold his wounds have disappeared.

SPOILER! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Dutch mate, ex-army, saw it in the Netherlands. On the whole he liked it - BUT, he knows the landscape, and the river scene was what he picked up on... It doesn't look as if it will be released here, and so although I am in two minds about it, on the whole I don't think I will watch it. Yes, just a film - but sorry, impossible geography?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

But not to the men: to a fellow officer. My quibble was that the movie had officers effing and blinding at the men.

Oh yes i agree , i think in the book he only used that language to the adjutant in the presence of the men because he was at the end of his tether .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

But not to the men: to a fellow officer. My quibble was that the movie had officers effing and blinding at the men.

 

 

Had there been a kind of “ dumbing down” of the officers’ deportment by this phase of the war, as a result of promotion from the ranks?

 

Or would the status of “ temporary gentlemen” have imparted a great anxiety about retaining distinction in speech and conduct ?

 

So much of the film was characterised by concessions to present day sensibilities : something that can be profoundly irritating ....but it’s all too understandable if the box office performance  is taken into account.

 

Phil

Edited by phil andrade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm. The river/dam etc was an obvious imaginative addition - the nearest 'river' I think is the Cojeul, hardly a river, more like an oversized stream. What really hit me was the metropolis of Ecoust (as depicted), in 1914 a modest place of maybe 650 souls. The nearest canal was several kilometres to the east of the village (i.e. well behind, e.g.,  the Queant Switch). However, this is to try and impose too much on what is a drama based on two characters in a Great War 'situation'. I would still recommend people to see it, there is much in it that is very well done. Just suspend the detail of your wartime knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of officers swearing at other ranks , in the current memoir i'm reading the private soldier was part of a squad being drilled by an officer who 

was becoming exasperated at their efforts . " Finding further urging useless he halted us . Not satisfied with injury , he added insult by using an extremely 

vulgar phrase , unbecoming of a man holding his rank as a British officer . Some of the squad were inclined to report him , but fearing red-tape influence 

would get the better of them the matter was allowed to pass " .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Black Maria,

 

What was the date of this anecdote ?

 

Seeing that you’re interested in the BEF in 1914, I’m wondering whether this suggests that the old regular officers of the earlier time of the war were held to a stricter protocol than their more socially diverse successors.

 

Phil

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

Black Maria,

What was the date of this anecdote ?

Was the unit in question Regular, New Army or Territorial?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

Black Maria,

 

What was the date of this anecdote ?

 

Seeing that you’re interested in the BEF in 1914, I’m wondering whether this suggests that the old regular officers of the earlier time of the war were held to a stricter protocol than their more socially diverse successors.

 

Phil

 

 

This was 1917 , he had been transferred to the Tank Corps from the R.Es but had yet to see overseas service . I know it's difficult to generalize too much but i don't 

remember reading other accounts of officers swearing at the men , although Captain Burgoyne of the 2nd R.I.R s wasn't adverse to delivering a good old fashioned

upper cut to his men when he thought the situation warranted it and he was an old regular officer .

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, squirrel said:

Was the unit in question Regular, New Army or Territorial?

It was the Tank Corps , probably at Bovington Camp in Dorset .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It took all sorts I suppose . Perhaps exasperation set in for the Officer and those being drilled or the individual making the comment had led a sheltered existence. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, squirrel said:

It took all sorts I suppose . Perhaps exasperation set in for the Officer and those being drilled or the individual making the comment had led a sheltered existence. 

He may well have done , although he did later serve at the front so would have heard some choice language there and the incident still left an impression on him 

when he wrote his memoirs some five years later . I don't think that the portrayal of the officers in the film came across particularly well , with the senior officer 

swearing and the junior one drunk and swearing and another in a funk and unable to go over the top.   I have read accounts of drunk officers who only

showed up in the front line when the danger had passed but these were the exception rather than the rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of swearing, this is from 2nd Lieut (later Captain) Wilfred Bion's account of the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917 (in his book The Long Week-end):

image.png.78031ff04d33bc1b562f30fedf19ec58.png

 

Bion was also in the Tank Corps but I wouldn't read too much into that! I can't think this kind of behaviour would have been too unusual in the stress of combat, though Bion's honesty certainly is.

 

All in all I agree with Nigel Cave's comment - for all its cinematic licence, there's an awful lot to recommend about the film.  The opening trench scenes in particular seem stunningly realistic, and the individual depictions of officers and men all seemed to ring true in different ways.

 

John

 

spacer.png.

 

 

Edited by johntaylor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, johntaylor said:

 

All in all I agree with Nigel Cave's comment - for all its cinematic licence, there's an awful lot to recommend about the film.  The opening trench scenes in particular seem stunningly realistic, and the individual depictions of officers and men all seemed to ring true in different ways.

 

John

 

Hear hear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/02/2020 at 11:03, Gardenerbill said:

I have a question, 

 

When Schofield escapes from Écoust-Saint-Mein he jumps in a river which becomes a raging torrent of rapids flowing through a rocky gorge, this seemed odd to me in a largely flat agricultural part of France, do such rapids exist?

The nearest waterfall in the battle area I can think of is the one in the park in Albert. Not on the scale of the one in the film but a) it exists b) it's in a town - so may have inspired the writers to think such a scene might be authentic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was the Great War generation more “ prissy” than others ?

 

Officers effed and blinded in other eras.

 

At Inkerman, as the hordes of Russians surrounded the British position, the officer in command of the division or brigade turned to his French ally and said, in French, what can only be translated as  “we’re f****d ! “

 

Phil

 

 

 

Edited by phil andrade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...