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liverbird

Memorial tablet

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liverbird

Hi can any one throw some light on dates on a memorial tablet I have just found out about, I have been tracing a chap in the South Wales borderes and it states he died on the 12.1.1918 in France but there was an added place name of Mametz , can any one please enlighten me as to the battles happening in the area at that time, or had he been wounded and died later on that date, all help welcomed.

Regards l.b

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clive_hughes

In January 1918 the Mametz area was well behind the British lines.  He might have died there by accident or illness somehow.  If you can post his details and the form of wording used, someone will try to clarify I'm sure.

 

Clive

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liverbird

Hi Clive , this gent I think is my grandmothers cousin his name is Danial Evans his parents were,Thomas and Jane Evans all from Anglesey and was b. in Cerrigceinwen in 1889 . I have found on the Internet an inscription on a tablet in the church along with 11 other men from the area the tablet has a number WMR 37010 , it says on info that comes in the search that he died  on the 12. 1. 1918 getting the result It also mentions Mametz . He is actually the link we think between some one else and myself on a family tree and it would be nice to pass the info on and perhaps clarify some questions I have.. hope this is clear to follow

regards L.B 

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clive_hughes

Well, I never realised he was an Anglesey man from the first post, but at least he's in my database!

 

Daniel (Dan) Evans, "Native of Cae Ronwy, Cerrigceinwen".  Also described as "A water bailiff of Crickhowell, Breconshire".  It's a bit complicated, but his medal card says he first went abroad as no.260681 Royal Engineers then continues as follows.  Medal Roll says first served with the SWBorderers as no.1867 which suggests the Brecknockshire Battalion SWB (Territorial Force).  He transferred to the Royal Defence Corps as no.52401 (created 1916, as a body for home defence and guarding vulnerable points, prisoner of war camps etc.).  Transferred again to the SWBorderers (TF) (?early 1917 or later) as no.201754.  Church memorial states he was at some point a Corporal.  Later (?1918) Sapper WR/10704, 303rd Road Construction Company, Royal Engineers. 

 

Died (of causes not including in action or of wounds) at the 15th Casualty Clearing Station on 1 December 1918, aged 30.  The 15th CCS was stationed at Don during the autumn of 1918 and start of 1919.  Buried at Don Communal Cemetery, Annoeullin, France, in Plot 1, row B, grave 13.  His widow chose an epitaph "Ever sadly missed by wife and little children Danny, Rosie, & Herbert".    

 

Next of kin was his wife Rosetta who later resided "Albuhera", Warrior Gardens, St.Leonards on Sea, Sussex.  She is shown on his medal card as being in 1924 at 2 Boscobel Road in that town.  She was his sole legatee under his Will and received in March 1919 over £49 in back pay (including £25 war gratuity).  The gratuity amount suggests he enlisted about September 1914.  There is a recorded wedding of a Daniel Evans to a Rosetta Lawton in the West Derby (Liverpool) District in Jan.-March Quarter 1916.   

 

He qualified for the British War Medal and Victory Medal, but a note on the Roll suggests that these had been returned ?unclaimed in 1924 under Kings Regulations 992.  Possibly they were needing "adjustment" eg. for a mis-spelled naming, or maybe they were kept for a time until scrapped.  

 

Commemorated as you say in Cerrigceinwen parish church; also on the Cerrigceinwen panel of the North Wales Heroes Memorial Arch in Bangor, Gwynedd.   One of the other local men (W.O.Williams) was killed at Mametz Wood in 1916, but just at the moment I can't tie Daniel to that place.  It's certainly nowhere near where he died.   

 

Hope this helps.

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liverbird

Hi Clive , this gent I think is my grandmothers cousin his name is Danial Evans his parents were,Thomas and Jane Evans all from Anglesey and was b. in Cerrigceinwen in 1889 . I have found on the Internet an inscription on a tablet in the church along with 11 other men from the area the tablet has a number WMR 37010 , it says on info that comes in the search that he died  on the 12. 1. 1918 getting the result It also mentions Mametz . He is actually the link we think between some one else and myself on a family tree and it would be nice to pass the info on and perhaps clarify some questions I have.. hope this is clear to follow

regards L.B 

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liverbird

Hi Clive , what can I say but huge thanks for all your hard work and interest and so much information to take in. You certainly have pulled all,the stops out. And it looks as though a little more of a family tree added to, I know the other person who is trying to tie everything up will be delighted , his hope is to go to the area sometime this year but now he can go well armed . With all this information on Danial's  family it makes it all very real, these men were not just names and numbers on stones and papers and had hopes,and dreams as  all of us have.

Thanks once more L.B

 

 

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

If it's this link to the Imperial War Museum's database of names on War Memorials,   https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/name/408033      then they record him as Daniel (not Danial) Evans, and gives his date of death as  1918-12-01.

 

That to me means December 1st 1918, and this is confirmed in his CWGC entry.

(Although the IWM wrongly places Cerrigceinwen in Gwynedd).

 

Memorial name

 

Evans, Daniel

 
Gender
Male
War
First World War (1914-1918)
Primary Service (as stated on memorial)
  • Service: Army (British)
    Rank: Corporal
    Unit: South Wales Borderers
Primary Service (IWM reference)
  • Service: Army (British)
    Rank: Corporal
Death and burial details
  • Age: 30
    Date: 1918-12-01
    Country of death: France
Memorial

Cerrigceinwen WW1 (WMR 37010)
Cerrigceinwen
Gwynedd

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liverbird

Thank you very much, I think the spelling of his Christian name is my mistake, but everything else ties in . Everyone has been great giving their time to this request , 

cheers  L.B

 

 

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clive_hughes

LB,

I've worked out that his service record survives, albeit in a rather scrappy form owing to the fire in 1940 which destroyed so many other files.  

 

He actually enlisted in the Territorials before the war, in May 1914 as a Private in the 1st Brecknockshire Battalion.  He enlisted and was living in Lamb Lane, Crickhowell at that time.  I may have been wrong with saying that he married in 1916: his three children were born in 1910, 1912, and 1914, and IF I'm reading the Census 1911 right he and his wife claimed to have been married 2 years in that year.  But I still can't find a marriage of a Rosetta to a Daniel Evans before 1916 using FreeBMD website.  He may have been a water bailiff in Crickhowell, but I think he was a collier in 1911 in Ton Pentre, Glamorgan while his wife lived with her married sister in Clydach, Breconshire.

 

He moved through the various units in the UK, and so did achieve Acting Corporal status and being a member of the SWBorderers  until going abroad as a Pioneer in the Royal Engineers in April 1917.  He served with 339 Road Construction Coy. but was hospitalised in France with neurasthenia in July 1917 - basically he (and some others in his unit) went to pieces under shellfire.  On recovery it seems he was sent to 303 RC Coy. as a Sapper, and he even managed to be passed proficient as a blacksmith in 1918.  However, he was admitted to 15th CCS and died there of broncho-pneumonia.  Since the great Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 was raging at that time, it may be that he caught flu and, like so many others, it led to fatal pneumonia. 

 

The notes on the medal card about adjustment etc. were because when they sent them to his wife, she had moved address and they couldn't be delivered.  She was living in Tollington Park, London N4 by 1919.  It was only when she wrote in 1924 asking where they were, that the medals were actually delivered to the Boscobel Road address. 

 

On the family side, she listed a good many relatives of his in 1919:  his father was dead by then, but mother Jane was still living at Cae Ronwy.  His brother Thomas age 42 was in Borough Road, Birkenhead; brother Hugh age 38 in Gelli, South Wales; and brother Owen age 35 at Caer Coning(?) Farm, Anglesey.   

 

It's been good for me to follow this up - I didn't know that much about him before.

 

Cheers,

Clive  

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
37 minutes ago, clive_hughes said:

and brother Owen age 35 at Caer Coning(?) Farm, Anglesey.   

 

Hi Clive,

That also says "Caer Ronwy".

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.2570841,-4.3444906,3a,75y,252.81h,82.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFnalJ37zeIZGH2JlWQSxWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

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clive_hughes

Thanks Dai, it makes sense!

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HarryBrook

I believe the marriage of Daniel Evans was in 1910, quarter 2, in Pontypridd, Glamorganshire to, as in the transcription of the G.R.O. marriage register, Rosetta Davies or Gwen Saunders. Since his wife's name is recorded as Rosetta it may be taken that her maiden name was Davies. G.R.O. ref. volume 11A page 880.

 

The following children, mother's maiden name Davies would appear to "fit":-

Danny born 1910 - Daniel John 1910 quarter 2, Ponypridd, Glamorganshire, vol. 11A page 626

Rosie born 1912 - Suggest this was Rosetta M. J. born 1912 quarter 3, Crickhowell, Breconshire, vol. 11B page 182

Herbert - Herbert C. born 1914 quarter 2, Crichhowell, Breconshire, vol. 11B page 183 

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clive_hughes

Hi HB,

Thanks for looking those up.  I had seen the Daniel Evans 1910 wedding listed in FreeBMD (and on FMP, which draws on that site), but they somehow couldn't connect it with a spouse name.  So well done there!

 

As regards the children, Rosetta in her completion of Army Form W5080 (Plaque & Scroll) 1919 states them as:

?Thomas D.Evans, born 1 January 1910  (a little uncertain, but the first initial of his first name matches the capital T as written in the 1919 address)( A tad early for the 2nd quarter listing?)

Rosetta Evans, born 17 July 1912 (matches)

Herbert Evans, born 14 March 1914 (almost matches, but possibly the birth registration might have taken a couple of weeks which would push it into 2nd quarter of the year?)

 

It's a pity that his 1914 Territorial enlistment form has no section (unlike the Regular/New Army version) for listing spouse's marriage details and children's birth details.  She did send all the certificates to the Corps Record Office on 9 March 1919, and they returned them: but no copy of the actual information survives in the present file.  

 

Clive

Edited by clive_hughes

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Scalyback

Will get back to you, he might be on my family tree being a Dan Evans of Crickhowell. 

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HarryBrook

On first checking there does not appear to be a convincing birth record for a Thomas D. Evans in quarter 1 of 1910 in the Breconshire or Glamorganshire Districts. There was a Thomas D. Evans born Merthyr Tydfil 1910 but in quarter 3. A Thomas Henry D. Evans was born in 1910 quarter 1 in the Pontypridd District, but the 1939 register gives a birth date of 15 January 1910 for Thomas H. D. Evans, and a death registration in 1958 and subsequent associated probate record gives his full name as Thomas Harry David Evans.

 

A family tree on ancestry for Rosetta Evans, born 1912, lists Daniel Evans, born 1910, as a sibling but with no records are quoted to support this. Two other siblings listed appear to be completely wrong.  

 

It has just occurred to me that as he appears to have been born before the marriage of his mother (assuming the 1910 quarter 2 marriage of Daniel Evans to Rosetta Davies is the correct one) would he not have been registered as Thomas D. Davies?

Edit to add: That theory drew a blank.

Edited by HarryBrook

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clive_hughes

HB,

It's frustrating isn't it.  He's Daniel everywhere else.  The 1911 Census shows a Rosetta Evans, age 22, born Pentre, Glamorgan, married 2 years with one child living, at 2 Club Row, Clydach, Breconshire.  The child is Daniel Evans, age 1 year, born Llanelly, Breconshire.  The householder is one Frederick Powell age 37, also born Llanelly, Breconshire, and married to her sister Elizabeth, age 30, born Pentre, Glamorgan. 

 

I didn't think there was another Llanelli, as in the Carmarthenshire town of that name; but there is indeed a Llanelly in the Crickhowell area.  The same goes for Clydach: there is one west of Crickhowell, as well as the better-known Clydach in Glamorgan!  

 

A Frederick Powell married an Elizabeth Davies in the Crickhowell Regn. District in the September Quarter 1909, which matches the 1911 Census, so I think you have got the right maiden name for Rosetta.  

 

Clive

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Scalyback

 

2 hours ago, HarryBrook said:

On first checking there does not appear to be a convincing birth record for a Thomas D. Evans in quarter 1 of 1910 in the Breconshire or Glamorganshire Districts. There was a Thomas D. Evans born Merthyr Tydfil 1910 but in quarter 3.

The Evans family from Crickhowell have Daniel, David and Thomas in various ways. There are a lot out there. 

 

EDIT they also moved to Merthyr(my branch of the family tree) to carry on using the names. 

 

 

Edited by Scalyback

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