Matt 71 Posted 3 February , 2019 Share Posted 3 February , 2019 Hallo thanks for the add to the forum , I’ve be recently been researching my Great grandfathers military past and was surprised when I got a copy of his records that he was in The Army cyclist corp and The 18th Northumberland fusiliers when he always said he was in the Black Watch. I contacted the Black watch and they have records he joined the regiment on the date I had for his enlistment 7/9/1914 but his records show only the ACC and The Northumberland fusiliers. Is it possible he was transferred as he was injured twice once in 1916 and again on the 12/09 /17 ?. I have know idea of his part in the fighting apart from the info I’ve found out about each regiments involvement. Anyone with anymore help I would be very happy to here . his name was Robert Troilett from St Helens en 7/9/14 Black Watch s/4607 Army Cyclist corp 1892 18th Northumberland fusiliers 45426 France between 8/5/16 to 4/8/16 and again 12/12/16 to 24/ 08/17 Chisledon 6/12/16 which I know was a training camp. Many thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 3 February , 2019 Share Posted 3 February , 2019 Hello Matt, and welcome to the Forum! The most likely scenario is this: He joined the Black Watch in Sep 1914 and was transferred to the Army Cyclist Corps some time in 1915. He then went abroad with the ACC, which may explain that "his records" (the medal rolls or the medal index card?) don't show his Black Watch service. Later in the war, when the infantry were short of men, soldiers from other branches were often "combed out" and transferred to the infantry, in his case to 18th Northumberland Fusiliers. None of this is definite but at least it presents a potential explanation of the information you already have. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil 2242 Posted 3 February , 2019 Share Posted 3 February , 2019 In the ACC, his unit was 41st Divisional Cyclist Coy He was discharged on 17/5/18 Silver War Badge No 410123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 3 February , 2019 Share Posted 3 February , 2019 (edited) Hi, Ron has laid out the likely scenario above. Records on FMP have him transferring from 41st Divisional Cyclist Corp to N.F. Depot, on a War Office casualty list dated 18/9/1917. Discharged 17/5/1918 due to wounds and awarded a Silver War Badge No. 410123. Edit. Slow typing. Edited 3 February , 2019 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 February , 2019 Admin Share Posted 3 February , 2019 4020 Stewart enlisted 9th Service Battalion Black Watch 3 September 1914. Transferred to Army Cyclist Corps on the 23. 12. 1914., apparently at own request and posted to 15th Divisional Cyclist Company, 15th (Scottish) Division and allocated the number 1894. This was the date the Cyclist Company was formed. Men were posted/volunteered to this unit from various Scottish Regiments. It’s difficult to extrapolate your g-grandfather’s service from just one record but it seems a reasonable move. However he did not go to France with the 15th Division. His date to France coincides with the 41st Division. A Pte Haworth KOSB went 15th to 41st, as did a Pte Read, his record shows he was posted to the A.C.C. T.C.(?) on 17.7.1915 and from there posted to the 41st on 13. 11. 1915. Also found a Pte Stewart in the Seaforths who followed the same route. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 71 Posted 4 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2019 Thanks for your response to this, it gives me a few more avenues to investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 71 Posted 4 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2019 Sorry to be a pain but if he joined the 9th battalion The Black Watch as did 7 of his fellow St Helens lads, would his training have been done in Perth? Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 5 February , 2019 Share Posted 5 February , 2019 The battalion was certainly formed at Perth, but most of its training took place in the Aldershot area. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 5 February , 2019 Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2019 (edited) As Ron says. Pte Stewart as mentioned above contracted a social disease which resulted in his discharge as 'not likely to become an efficient soldier' in April 1915, while at Aldershot in September 1914. "I just cum doon frum the Isle of Skye..etc' (St Andrews Fife actually but the tune is a bit of an ear worm ) Ken Edited 5 February , 2019 by kenf48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 71 Posted 9 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2019 On 03/02/2019 at 23:59, kenf48 said: 4020 Stewart enlisted 9th Service Battalion Black Watch 3 September 1914. Transferred to Army Cyclist Corps on the 23. 12. 1914., apparently at own request and posted to 15th Divisional Cyclist Company, 15th (Scottish) Division and allocated the number 1894. This was the date the Cyclist Company was formed. Men were posted/volunteered to this unit from various Scottish Regiments. It’s difficult to extrapolate your g-grandfather’s service from just one record but it seems a reasonable move. However he did not go to France with the 15th Division. His date to France coincides with the 41st Division. A Pte Haworth KOSB went 15th to 41st, as did a Pte Read, his record shows he was posted to the A.C.C. T.C.(?) on 17.7.1915 and from there posted to the 41st on 13. 11. 1915. Also found a Pte Stewart in the Seaforths who followed the same route. Ken Hallo Ken So if my GGrandad followed a similar route as the above,after joining up in sept14 I know he was at Chislden training camp with the Northumberland Fusiliers around the 10th dec1916 but he didn’t get to France till the 8/5/16 by which time the NF had been there a few months and now were part of the 34th division, is this the normal time for training? I’ve got the war records for the NF and they were around Albert and Pommiers pretty much from 1st Jan16 to 1918. So my GG never actually served with the BlackWatch or th Army Cyclist corp. There’s not much talk about casualties around the dates I have for my GG only a mention a month before his injury and also his injury on the 18/09/17 his records show he wasn’t serving in France then he had left on the 24thAug 1917. Do you think this a plosible scenario and details about right ? Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 9 March , 2019 Share Posted 9 March , 2019 Matt, There is a pension index card for Srobert Troilett on Ancestry, although it can only be viewed on Fold 3, or the Western Front Association if you are a member. It is also indexed as Srobert Troilett on Fold 3, although the record clearly shows Robert Troilett. The record shows that he was discharged due to a gunshot wound to the right arm. This was, strangely, only 50% aggravated or attributable to service. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 71 Posted 9 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2019 1 hour ago, alf mcm said: Matt, There is a pension index card for Srobert Troilett on Ancestry, although it can only be viewed on Fold 3, or the Western Front Association if you are a member. It is also indexed as Srobert Troilett on Fold 3, although the record clearly shows Robert Troilett. The record shows that he was discharged due to a gunshot wound to the right arm. This was, strangely, only 50% aggravated or attributable to service. Regards, Alf McM Thanks Alf sounds like it may have been self inflicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 9 March , 2019 Admin Share Posted 9 March , 2019 We know from your research and the Silver War Badge Rolls he enlisted in the Black Watch on the 7th September 1914. It seems likely on the basis of near number sampling he transferred to the 15th (Scottish) Division Army Cyclist Corps on formation of that unit in December 1914. As he had no entitlement to the 14-15 Star we can say with certainty he did not enter a theatre of war with that unit or Division. We know at some point he transferred to the 41st Division A.C.C. This Division was sent to France between the 1st and 6th May 1916. It appears the Cyclist Company embarked on the 5th May. As the A.C.C. is shown on the Medal Roll this is the unit he was serving in when he first went to France. Often a unit is shown on the Rolls as the one a soldier was serving with when he entered theatre but he did not serve with that unit in the field. The Infantry Base Depot (I.B.D.) was a ‘melting pot’ for new arrivals and men were sent where most needed. This was unusual when an entire Division joined the B.E.F.so it seems safe to assume his initial service with the B.E.F. was with 41st Coy Army Cyclist Corps. The unit left the Division shortly after arriving in France, on the 28 May (see LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/41st-division/) I believe they were then attached to II Corps. Graham Stewart is the Northumberland Fusiliers expert but it looks very much that Pte Troillett was posted to the Regiment in France on or around the 12th October 1916. Pte 42427 O’Hare was posted to the 8th Bn on the 12.10.1916. at the I.B.D ., then swiftly posted to the 27th Bn on the 29th joining them in the field on that date. As was a Pte. 42413 McLeod. It’s possible he moved between Battalions of the NF. before transferring to the 18th on a date unknown. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 71 Posted 10 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2019 Thanks lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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