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Please help me find some more information of this Pattern. 14


JustAGuy1250

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Goodday!

I recently got myself a Pattern 1914 though i came across some weird markings.

 

I am 100% sure it is a Pattern 1914, it says P14 .303 USA on the barrel (and Caista. A V T, anyone know anything about this?)

What i also know is that this gun has been refurbished, the volley sight is taken off and the brass plate on the stock is replaced with a wooden one.

Though, i am missing any refurbished markings on the back saying something like Mk I or Mk II or whatever, there are no markings there at all!

I also have 3 weird markings on the side of the reciever, painted in red, see the pictures for those.

lastly, can someone find the date of creation for the following serial number: ERA 353564.

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CAI (Century Arms International, import mark) I see 'DP' marked on the butt, which is 'Drill Purpose'. Is it marked DP on the receiver anywhere?

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This is an  INDIAN used Pattern 14 that has been converted into a drill rifle (see all the DP stamps = Drill Purpose) the other roundel on the butt is an Indian marking.

 

It has also had the chamber drilled through (you can see the big hole in the wood in your last picture. I trust it does not need to be stated but this means it is totally unsafe to fire.

It would have had red and white stripes around the action (you can see the residual paint in the markings)

 

So this is what it would have looked like (at the bottom of this group)

DP2.jpg.9a19d6bf98d3b80f148bc9c04b2ffbbb.jpg

Although note - yours is in the ERA "fatboy" stock - without the grasping groves, compare to mine.

 

The stamp on the muzzle is an importers stamp and is  CAI (Century Arms International) the US importer, as required by the 1968 National Fireams Act.

 

The ERA serial number  indicates it was accepted by the inspectors in March 1917 so relatively later production. There should be an * stamped on the chamber, and also the bolt handle indicating it is a MkI* (by this point in production they all were)

 

(if you look under the upper handguard you may see a date on the barrel if the drilled hole missed it!)

 

Chris

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1 minute ago, ShtLE303 said:

CAI (Century Arms International, import mark) I see 'DP' marked on the butt, which is 'Drill Purpose'. Is it marked DP on the receiver anywhere?

It has DP over the entire thing

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The markings in red are the British 'broad arrow' ownership mark, and standard proofs. 

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Just to make sure --

This rifle must never come near ammunition - the chamber has a 1/2 inch hole drilled right through it.

P14DP.jpg.5ccd3664638e5edb81fb4b0629a945ac.jpg

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13 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

This is an  INDIAN used Pattern 14 that has been converted into a drill rifle (see all the DP stamps = Drill Purpose) the other roundel on the butt is an Indian marking.

 

It has also had the chamber drilled through (you can see the big hole in the wood in your last picture. I trust it does not need to be stated but this means it is totally unsafe to fire.

It would have had red and white stripes around the action (you can see the residual paint in the markings)

 

So this is what it would have looked like (at the bottom of this group)

DP2.jpg.9a19d6bf98d3b80f148bc9c04b2ffbbb.jpg

Although note - yours is in the ERA "fatboy" stock - without the grasping groves, compare to mine.

 

The stamp on the muzzle is an importers stamp and is  CAI (Century Arms International) the US importer, as required by the 1968 National Fireams Act.

 

The ERA serial number  indicates it was accepted by the inspectors in March 1917 so relatively later production. There should be an * stamped on the chamber, and also the bolt handle indicating it is a MkI* (by this point in production they all were)

 

(if you look under the upper handguard you may see a date on the barrel if the drilled hole missed it!)

 

Chris

Interesting, do you perhaps know anything about the value of this thing in the european market?

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Just now, JustAGuy1250 said:

Interesting, do you perhaps know anything about the value of this thing in the european market?

Sorry, I really do not.

 

It might be complicated because although it has been rendered inoperable by drilling the chamber, unless more work has been done to it I suspect it almost certainly does not meet the standards for official deactivation (which also requires documentation/certification etc) and therefore would be considered a live firearm with all the legal implications of that.

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1 minute ago, 4thGordons said:

Sorry, I really do not.

 

It might be complicated because although it has been rendered inoperable by drilling the chamber, unless more work has been done to it I suspect it almost certainly does not meet the standards for official deactivation (which also requires documentation/certification etc) and therefore would be considered a live firearm with all the legal implications of that.

It is legally deactivated (has lead put inside the barrel)  via the Dutch gun law

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8 minutes ago, JustAGuy1250 said:

It is legally deactivated (has lead put inside the barrel)  via the Dutch gun law

Ahh, OK. You are probably aware that the laws regarding firearms deactivation have been strengthened recently at a European level and (generally speaking) this means deactivated rifles have to meet the new standard in order to be legally sold, this may have an impact. How this is operating in different jurisdictions is not entirely clear to me.

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons
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Just now, 4thGordons said:

Ahh, OK. You are probably aware that the laws regarding firearms deactivation have been strengthened recently at a European level and (generally speaking) this means deactivated rifles have to meet the new standard in order to be legally sold, this may have an impact. How this is operating in different jurisdictions is not entirely clear.

Chris

I am fully aware yes, and this gun is legally deactivated

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5 hours ago, JustAGuy1250 said:

Interesting, do you perhaps know anything about the value of this thing in the european market?

 

 

Dont know in black Markets.

But for shooters and Collectors ....nothing.

Dont know where are  you sited but this is considered as a firing gun and must be recorded and legally owned.

Or officially deactivated at a cost well over the price of the rifle.

Edited by Gernika
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Sorry - here is a link to UK guidance on deactivated weapons.  These may not be offered for sale via this forum in any way, and before even contemplating such a think the weapon must comply with the guidance in the link.https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q319.htm

We are happy to discuss weapons of the Great War, but it should also be clear that if a member wants a valuation they should approach a suitable and properly registered  dealer.

If you are in another country you would be well advised to check the relevant legal position.

 

Keith Roberts

GWF team

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  • keithmroberts locked and unlocked this topic

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