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johnpreid

13th Cheshire Regiment

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johnpreid

I am looking for help with my grandfather and the 13th royal Cheshire regiment during first world war he was horrifically injured in 1917 please can someone help or contact me his name was J Reid regiment number 5 9 1 1 6

It says he was injured in 1917 arrived at Croydon hospital then was sent to sidcup hospital of the famous plastic surgeon sir Harold Gillies where he received pioneering plastic surgery that lasted till 1922

If anyone can help with this please reply and thank you in advance and also to those who we remember

John Reid grandson of j Reid

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Edited by johnpreid
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HERITAGE PLUS

In order that we can be able to help you we need more information about your grandfather.

 

His full name and date of birth and place of residence would be a good start. Any other info such as his parents or siblings names would also help.

 

The more information that you can give the better :)

 

Dave

Edited by HERITAGE PLUS

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Michelle Young

An excellent book about the work of Gillies and the Sidcup Hospital is Faces From The Front by Andrew Bamji 

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clk

Hi John,

 

Unfortunately, I didn't see any surviving service papers for John. It doesn't seem that he qualified for a 'Star' medal, which would imply that he went overseas at some time after the end of 1915. His British War & Victory Medals roll record shows his overseas service as...

 

image.png.da023078ded033106ce7101519cc554c.png

Image source: Ancestry.co.uk

 

There is an overview of the structure of the Cheshire Regiment here, and an ORBAT of 25 Division here.

 

The war diary for the 13 Battalion Cheshire Regiment is here at the National Archives, and the 74 Infantry Brigade HQ diary here. Hopefully someone will be able point you in the direction of relevant diaries for the 74 Brigade Trench Mortar Battery, and its' incarnations. None of diaries are likely to mention John by name, but I think that the main difficulty you have in mapping his service is establishing appropriate dates.

 

Prior to his severe facial wounding, there is a hospital admission/discharge record on FMP which appears to read as:

 

First name: J

Last name: Reid

Service number: 59116

Rank: Private

Regiment: Cheshire Regiment

Battalion: 13th

Admitted: 11 Casualty Clearing Station, Bailleul 7.6.1917

Ailment: Shrapnel wound to hand

Transfer date: 7.6.1917 

Transferred: image.png.cc61d822bcbc0e9a8183ac0adc34f142.png … to 112 something Ambulance Train ?? 

 

There is advice on how to try to research a soldier here.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards

Chris

 

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RussT

No 112 Temporary Ambulance Train

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BillyH

The 13th battalion were at Westhoek Ridge on 10.8.17 (Battle of Passchendaele - 3rd Ypres)

They had been in the line since 5th August and were relieved on 11th. The bulk of the casualties were suffered on 10th August.

The war diary is transcribed below :

 

Friday 10 August 1917

Battalion attacked and captured the German Front & Support Lines at 4.35am (Black Line) Lt. Col Finch, L.H.K – D.S.O, Major Nares E.D, a/Capt Moir H.R, Lt Green L.E.H, 2nd Lt Miln J.D, 2nd Lt Shaw W.E, 2nd Lt Richardson F.M, 2nd Lt Skelton W, 2nd Lt Cross E J,

2nd LT Lloyd T, & 2nd Lt Silcock all wounded. (2nd Lt Silcock since died of wounds). Total casualties in other ranks from 5/8/17 to relief 50 killed, 266 wounded, 56 missing Total 372.

 

Your grandfather was one of the many casualties.

 

BillyH.

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johnpreid

a big big thank you for your kind replies. And the information. Please may I ask the gentleman who posted my grandfather's information. To be a bit more clearer for me. It does say on his medical report he was injured in 1917 and went to Croydon hospital first then onto sidcup hospital for plastic surgery in Kent. My grandmother evidently was a nurse and married him. And they both resided in Kent.

Pleaseforgive me if I have got some things wrong.

The information I have is very hard to read. Please could CLK message me also a big thank you to him. I find it quite hard to understand why he didn't qualify for service medals. As he did serve in the conflict and was severely injured in 1917 and the great war ended in 1918. Please CLK or any other kind person explain to me why he wasn't entitled for any medals or perhaps im getting it wrong if someone could tell me thank you. It says that he had a wound to his hand. But does not say anything about his face. Am I right in saying that is battalion ended up in seaton Carew near Hartlepool. As I have read this somewhere. Should this be right it is quite amazing that due to my illness and disability I have had to retire up north and guess where seaton Carew near Hartlepool from Kent.

Edited by johnpreid
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johnpreid

I am quite confused please forgive.

In the archive that someone very very kindly found for me. Can someone please clarify if he was entitled to medals please. Like the silver war badgefor injuryengraved with his name on the back. This information I have only just read on the internet so I might be wrong again.And any more information on his battalion would be gratefully appreciated a big thank you to everyone once again. 

Edited by johnpreid
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Mark1959

He did get medal. CLK was merely saying he did not get a Star. This means he did not serve in a theatre of war prior to 1/1/16. The Stars were for service prior to that. He was entitled to the British War and Victory Medals.

Seems he was wounded twice. Once in June 1917 and the in Aug 1917.

Edited by Mark1959

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johnpreid

Thank you Mark

I have just looked up on the internet about pip squeak and Harold. The three medal nicknames also was he entitled to a injury medal. And out of the three above medals which ones was he entitled to. It's a mind field for someone like myself it does say on his medical records he was finally discharged in 1922 from hospital so would that mean from the army as well as I know he did receive a war pension. If someone would kindly list the medals for me. And thank you again so much

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Michelle Young
16 hours ago, clk said:

Hi John,

 

Unfortunately, I didn't see any surviving service papers for John. It doesn't seem that he qualified for a 'Star' medal, which would imply that he went overseas at some time after the end of 1915. His British War & Victory Medals roll record shows his overseas service as...

 

image.png.da023078ded033106ce7101519cc554c.png

Image source: Ancestry.co.uk

 

There is an overview of the structure of the Cheshire Regiment here, and an ORBAT of 25 Division here.

 

The war diary for the 13 Battalion Cheshire Regiment is here at the National Archives, and the 74 Infantry Brigade HQ diary here. Hopefully someone will be able point you in the direction of relevant diaries for the 74 Brigade Trench Mortar Battery, and its' incarnations. None of diaries are likely to mention John by name, but I think that the main difficulty you have in mapping his service is establishing appropriate dates.

 

Prior to his severe facial wounding, there is a hospital admission/discharge record on FMP which appears to read as:

 

First name: J

Last name: Reid

Service number: 59116

Rank: Private

Regiment: Cheshire Regiment

Battalion: 13th

Admitted: 11 Casualty Clearing Station, Bailleul 7.6.1917

Ailment: Shrapnel wound to hand

Transfer date: 7.6.1917 

Transferred: image.png.cc61d822bcbc0e9a8183ac0adc34f142.png … to 112 something Ambulance Train ?? 

 

There is advice on how to try to research a soldier here.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards

Chris

 

The key sentence here is prior to his severe facial wounding

 

Michelle 

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Mark1959

Difference names for different combinations of medals. His were “Mutt and Jeff”. The round ones. Just checking pension records etc

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Michelle Young

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/

 

medal info here. I recommend reading all the how to research a soldier, it will answer a lot of your questions.

 

Michelle 

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johnpreid

Mark I do have his medical records that I would willingly message yourself

2 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Difference names for different combinations of medals. His were “Mutt and Jeff”. The round ones. Just checking pension records etc

 

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johnpreid

IMG_20190203_124115.thumb.jpg.1835b0c67167e8f101f435f47eceb999.jpg

9 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Difference names for different combinations of medals. His were “Mutt and Jeff”. The round ones. Just checking pension records etc

 

IMG_20190203_123850.jpg

IMG_20190203_123921.jpg

Edited by johnpreid
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johnpreid

Such kind people on hear.

His regiment didn't really offer me any help.

I now understand more about the medals. And hopefully he would have been awarded the medal for his severe war wounds.

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johnpreid
54 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

He did get medal. CLK was merely saying he did not get a Star. This means he did not serve in a theatre of war prior to 1/1/16. The Stars were for service prior to that. He was entitled to the British War and Victory Medals.

Seems he was wounded twice. Once in June 1917 and the in Aug 1917.

If I wanted to buy my grandfather's medals. Can anyone offer me any help with regards to someone I could buy from on here please. As I would like to own them and to hand them down to my grandchildren. With all of this information.

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johnpreid

I was led to believe that his wife Kathleen. She was a nurse when he met her.

And they married. And went on to have 7 children. If I can remember right. It would be nice if she was and if someone could clarify this. Did they met at sidcup hospital ? I was roughly 6 years of age and they were both retired.

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Michelle Young
3 hours ago, johnpreid said:

If I wanted to buy my grandfather's medals. Can anyone offer me any help with regards to someone I could buy from on here please. As I would like to own them and to hand them down to my grandchildren. With all of this information.

The British Medal Forum is the place to get help looking for medals I believe. 

 

Michelle  

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Mark1959

Just noticed that he was not discharged until February 1921. See images above. Would his records have been retained by the MO?

Also may explain why I cannot find a Silver War Badge. 

The wounded list he is on in Sept 1917 gives his next of kin location as Coolardine. That does not appear to exist. John has told me in a private message that his GF came from Ireland possibly County Wexford. The only place I can find something like Coolardine is Cooldine in County Tipperary. 

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Mark1959

This is his entry in the wounded list

reid.png.b198bccf9a753622236d92cbc7873b1f.png

Edited by Mark1959

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Mark1959

John

Can you confirm the following is your family coming from the 1939 register

Living Chalk Pit Avenue in Orpington

John Reid born 2/1/1895

Kathleen born 29/10/1901

Closed Record

John P born 1921

Frank born 1923 (You have told me your father was called Frank)

Eileen M born 1925

Closed Record 

Closed Record

Derek born 1932

The closed records are not released records

You have stated John and Kathleen had 7 children. If the closed records are also children then that would make 7. 

If you can confirm this gives the forum members more to get their teeth into 

This John is a nightwatchman. Seen other sources suggesting this man was born one day earlier on 1/1/1895

The mother's maiden name appears to be Price.

 

 

Edited by Mark1959

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Mark1959

Progress

Now we suspect he was born 1895 this led me to a 1901 Irish Census return

Cooladine, Co. Wexford

John Reid aged 6.

Parents

John 44

Mary 40

Mary 20

Eliza 10

James 8

John 6

Lawrence 4

Margaret 3

 

A Roman Catholic family

A John Reid aged 15 is a servant in nearby Ballyhuskard in 1911 and may well be the same John Reid.

 

Clearly none of this helps us directly in determining his war service. 

 

 

 

Edited by Mark1959

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johnpreid
11 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Progress

Now we suspect he was born 1895 this led me to a 1901 Irish Census return

Cooladine, Co. Wexford

John Reid aged 6.

Parents

John 44

Mary 40

Mary 20

Eliza 10

James 8

John 6

Lawrence 4

Margaret 3

 

A Roman Catholic family

A John Reid aged 15 is a servant in nearby Ballyhuskard in 1911 and may well be the same John Reid.

 

 

 

 

I was led to believe that his wife Kathleen. She was a nurse when he met her.

And they married. And went on to have 7 children. If I can remember right. It would be nice if she was and if someone could clarify this. Did they met at sidcup hospital ? I was roughly 6 years of age and they were both retired.

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johnpreid

Yes it is definitely him I remember chalk pit avenue. This is truly amazing sir. One of my father's first council houses was in Elizabeth way st. Mary Cray. Then we moved to Ronfern avenue. St. Mary Cray. Plus my grandfather was also living in Ronfern avenue. Possibly think my grandfather's house number was 1 or 2.

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