Mustard Gas in India

[corisande]

A thread was recently started about Capt A N W Cologan R.A.M.C who wrote the song "Galway Bay" - click for thread

 

He appears to have served only in India (from 14 Mar 1916 to 1 Jan 1918) and is believed to have suffered from Mustard Gas poisoning.

 

On first sight this seemed ridiculous, but a bit of digging showed that Churchill was pushing for Mustard Gas to be used to against the frontier tribes

 

This is from the Guardian but there is a more academic article on Churchill and Mustard Gas here

 

The British were no strangers to the use of chemical weapons. During the third battle of Gaza in 1917, General Edmund Allenby had fired 10,000 cans of asphyxiating gas at enemy positions, to limited effect. But in the final months of the first world war, scientists at the governmental laboratories at Porton in Wiltshire developed a far more devastating weapon: the top secret "M Device", an exploding shell containing a highly toxic gas called diphenylaminechloroarsine. The man in charge of developing it, Major General Charles Foulkes, called it "the most effective chemical weapon ever devised".

 

Trials at Porton suggested that it was indeed a terrible new weapon. Uncontrollable vomiting, coughing up blood and instant, crippling fatigue were the most common reactions. The overall head of chemical warfare production, Sir Keith Price, was convinced its use would lead to the rapid collapse of the Bolshevik regime. "If you got home only once with the gas you would find no more Bolshies this side of Vologda."The cabinet was hostile to the use of such weapons, much to Churchill's irritation. He also wanted to use M Devices against the rebellious tribes of northern India. "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," he declared in one secret memorandum. He criticised his colleagues for their "squeamishness", declaring that "the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable. Gas is a more merciful weapon than [the] high explosive shell, and compels an enemy to accept a decision with less loss of life than any other agency of war.

 

So were the British testing Mustard Gas in India or in fact did they ever use it. ?

Could an RAMC doctor there have been exposed ?

Are there any records of British deaths in India from Gas ?

 

[DavidOwen]

There is evidence that Porton Down tested gas in Rawalpindi but that didn't start until 1930s allegedly.

There's a record at TNA of the RAF preparing to use it against hill tribes in 1919 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2545062 so it may be possible there were stocks there prior to then?

 

A comprehensive article on gas in ww1 found though no mention of India

http://www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Poison_gas_in_World_War_I.html

 

Edited 31 January , 2019 by DavidOwen
Added article

[corisande]

Thanks for that. That is very useful

 

It is difficult to get anything definite as to what was happening on the ground in India, but it does mean that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a RAMC officer could have suffered Mustard Gas poisoning in India in 1917

[Gareth Davies]

Would you mind if I were to throw in a literal bit of pedantry.  Mustard Gas isn't a gas.  The name is wrong (albeit it is a name in common usage).  

[DavidOwen]

29 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said:

Would you mind if I were to throw in a literal bit of pedantry.  Mustard Gas isn't a gas.  The name is wrong (albeit it is a name in common usage).  

Very true, Mustard Mist would be more accurate.

Incidentally the fatality rate following exposure was much lower than the other "gases" at around 2% ish.

[MikeMeech]

7 hours ago, corisande said:

A thread was recently started about Capt A N W Cologan R.A.M.C who wrote the song "Galway Bay" - click for thread

 

He appears to have served only in India (from 14 Mar 1916 to 1 Jan 1918) and is believed to have suffered from Mustard Gas poisoning.

 

On first sight this seemed ridiculous, but a bit of digging showed that Churchill was pushing for Mustard Gas to be used to against the frontier tribes

 

This is from the Guardian but there is a more academic article on Churchill and Mustard Gas here

 

The British were no strangers to the use of chemical weapons. During the third battle of Gaza in 1917, General Edmund Allenby had fired 10,000 cans of asphyxiating gas at enemy positions, to limited effect. But in the final months of the first world war, scientists at the governmental laboratories at Porton in Wiltshire developed a far more devastating weapon: the top secret "M Device", an exploding shell containing a highly toxic gas called diphenylaminechloroarsine. The man in charge of developing it, Major General Charles Foulkes, called it "the most effective chemical weapon ever devised".

 

Trials at Porton suggested that it was indeed a terrible new weapon. Uncontrollable vomiting, coughing up blood and instant, crippling fatigue were the most common reactions. The overall head of chemical warfare production, Sir Keith Price, was convinced its use would lead to the rapid collapse of the Bolshevik regime. "If you got home only once with the gas you would find no more Bolshies this side of Vologda."The cabinet was hostile to the use of such weapons, much to Churchill's irritation. He also wanted to use M Devices against the rebellious tribes of northern India. "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," he declared in one secret memorandum. He criticised his colleagues for their "squeamishness", declaring that "the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable. Gas is a more merciful weapon than [the] high explosive shell, and compels an enemy to accept a decision with less loss of life than any other agency of war.

 

So were the British testing Mustard Gas in India or in fact did they ever use it. ?

Could an RAMC doctor there have been exposed ?

Are there any records of British deaths in India from Gas ?

 

Hi

 

According to Palazzo in 'Seeking Victory on the Western Front', page 185,the British first used 'Mustard Gas' (BB) at the battle of the St. Quentin Canal, which was during September 1918, that was about 15 months after the first German use.  I would suggest it was highly unlikely that he would have been exposed to the compound in India that prior to the date of its introduction by the British on the Western front.

 

Mike

[Terry_Reeves]

There is no evidence that mustard gas was used in India in WW1. As already pointed out in Mike's post above , it was not used by the British until September 1918. Its correct name is ββdichlorodiethyl sulphide , hence the BB in Mike's contribution. It was dispersed as droplets. 

 

With regard to the Guardian article, it is a bit short of facts.  The "M" Device was not a shell, but a thermo-generator in fact a large metal can. When lit it emitted an arsenical particulate smoke cloud. Whilst Foulkes enthusiastic about the "M" Device he went on to say "Another new tactical situation arose that although DM or DA [the two types of substances trialled] could be depended upon to incapacitate the enemy completely, by causing almost intolerable pain and discomfort its effect was not lethal and it was only temporary....."

 

The piece about 10000 cans of asphyxiating gas being fired at 3rd Gaza is another gem. From the QMs stores I presume.

 

Back to the original question, it would be interesting to see where exactly this story came from.

 

TR

Edited 31 January , 2019 by Terry_Reeves

[MaureenE]

The use of mustard gas was being considered in India in 1919

Asymmetry in Afghanistan - the poison gas option The Serving Soldier website

 

"Views of officers of 4 (Quetta) Division, Waziristan Force and Northern Command on the possible use of gas as an offensive weapon in North West Frontier Province, 1919.

The report is one of several that weighed up the use of gas against the tribal populations in that remote region. It is part of the collection of Major General Charles Foulkes, an expert on gas warfare, who was sent to the area on a fact-finding mission."

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

[corisande]

 

13 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

 

Back to the original question, it would be interesting to see where exactly this story came from. 

 

 

With the web it is very difficult to see where a "fact" really came from, and what is cut and past. Below is a Jstor published academic article which says he was exposed to Mustard Gas. Every other reference to Colahan has this one brief sentence.. Who got the "fact" first and who copied it I cannot determine

 

What we can say is that Colahan shipped out to India 2 months after he was commissioned. He left for India on 14 Mar 1916 and resigned his commission 1 Jan 1918 on the grounds of ill health contracted on active service. He only got the BWM and appears from the roll to have served only in India

 

[Terry_Reeves]

Thanks Corisande. I suspect this will not be resolved somehow.

 

TR

[corisande]

14 hours ago, MikeMeech said:

According to Palazzo in 'Seeking Victory on the Western Front', page 185,the British first used 'Mustard Gas' (BB) at the battle of the St. Quentin Canal, which was during September 1918, that was about 15 months after the first German use.  I would suggest it was highly unlikely that he would have been exposed to the compound in India that prior to the date of its introduction by the British on the Western front.

 

 

Yes, I know when chemical agents were first used on the battle front. But prior to that research and production had to take place. I am trying to ascertain if any of that research or production went on in India in 1917. The TNA blog has an article on Mustard Gas click for article. But a point they make is :-

 

It wasn’t just men on the front lines who were in harm’s way. MUN 4/6906 contains accounts of men who suffered from exposure to mustard gas through the production of it, experimentation with it, or through a piece of clothing which had been inadvertently exposed to the chemicals.

 

There is a story of one man who wore a tie which he had previously worn in the vicinity of an experiment concerning mustard gas. He wore the tie again a few days later and the skin under his chin started to become irritated. It soon became apparent that the chemicals had permeated the tie and were causing this irritation, even after a few days. Naturally, and fortunately, it wasn’t as severe as the effects experienced by people faced with a greater concentration of the gas, on the front lines.

 

Another case details a man who had to take months off work, after a workplace accident involving a leakage of liquid mustard gas. As a result, he suffered from a great deformity of his left hand and wrist – which was difficult to move – with severe problems relating to his third and little finger. As well as these injuries, he displayed some of the characteristic symptoms of gas exposure: skin discolouration, coughing, expectoration and problems with his breathing and lungs. He was sent to the Royal Orthopaedic Hospital in Great Portland Street, and was paid some allowance from the Government – although it did not amount to the equivalent of his full wages. Some argument about this ensues within the pages of the files dedicated to him.

 

I guess the balance of probability with my example of Cologan in India is that I can neither prove nor disprove that he suffered from Mustard Gas effects

[MikeMeech]

8 hours ago, corisande said:

 

Yes, I know when chemical agents were first used on the battle front. But prior to that research and production had to take place. I am trying to ascertain if any of that research or production went on in India in 1917. The TNA blog has an article on Mustard Gas click for article. But a point they make is :-

 

It wasn’t just men on the front lines who were in harm’s way. MUN 4/6906 contains accounts of men who suffered from exposure to mustard gas through the production of it, experimentation with it, or through a piece of clothing which had been inadvertently exposed to the chemicals.

 

There is a story of one man who wore a tie which he had previously worn in the vicinity of an experiment concerning mustard gas. He wore the tie again a few days later and the skin under his chin started to become irritated. It soon became apparent that the chemicals had permeated the tie and were causing this irritation, even after a few days. Naturally, and fortunately, it wasn’t as severe as the effects experienced by people faced with a greater concentration of the gas, on the front lines.

 

Another case details a man who had to take months off work, after a workplace accident involving a leakage of liquid mustard gas. As a result, he suffered from a great deformity of his left hand and wrist – which was difficult to move – with severe problems relating to his third and little finger. As well as these injuries, he displayed some of the characteristic symptoms of gas exposure: skin discolouration, coughing, expectoration and problems with his breathing and lungs. He was sent to the Royal Orthopaedic Hospital in Great Portland Street, and was paid some allowance from the Government – although it did not amount to the equivalent of his full wages. Some argument about this ensues within the pages of the files dedicated to him.

 

I guess the balance of probability with my example of Cologan in India is that I can neither prove nor disprove that he suffered from Mustard Gas effects

Hi

 

The 'History of the Ministry of Munitions' does not mention any involvement of India in the development or production of Mustard Gas.  The first British process for this gas was developed at the University of St. Andrews, production was mainly in UK factories, some Mustard Gas came from the USA just before the Armistice.  I do not think he could have been affected by Mustard Gas in India.  If it was Mustard Gas that made him ill it must have been on return from India.

 

Mike

[DavidOwen]

Some other gas then? 

But a TNA search for "gas AND India" didn't result in anything not already mentioned...

[MaureenE]

There is a topic on WW2Talk Forum

"Chemical Warfare Establishment NE India WW2"

http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/chemical-warfare-establishment-ne-india-ww2.75190/

 

It mentions the first faculty  established in India was post WW1, and it was a sub-station of a UK facility

"After WW1 a Chemical Defence Research Establishment (India) (CDRE) was created, it was till 1944 @ Rawalpindi, Punjab Province (now in Pakistan) and it was a sub-station of Porton Down, the main UK military facility (which exists still)."

There is reference to the book

Secret Science: A Century of Poison Warfare and Human Experiments by  Ulf Schmidt.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

[corisande]

11 hours ago, Maureene said:

Secret Science: A Century of Poison Warfare and Human Experiments by  Ulf Schmidt.

 

Maureen

 

Thank you very much for the reference. I think that is what I am looking for.

 

You can tell what a strange sort of person I am, I have just ordered a copy off Amazon, it looked like a good read even if it does not answer my question :-)