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eisenbahn.tv

Aerial view unknown town after attac

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eisenbahn.tv

Hello,

 

I've got this picture:

 

WWI-0663.jpg.dd6d18a1414820000f67f0b8ff3d37c7.jpg

 

and I dont know where it was taken. It ist marked as "Ypern" but it is definitely not Ypern. Even if you think it's printed mirrored - the railway layout would match, wind from the east - very rare - but the trenches would be defintitely at the wrong side of the town...

 

Anyone got a idee which town is shown?

 

Regards Gabriel

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Howard

Almost none of the aerial photos I have seen are North Up so wthout a North arrow the orientation is not known. The feature top left looks distinctive, possibly railways but I have not been able to match that with a railway map of the whole of the Ypres area.

 

Howard

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Open Bolt

I too have not been able to find it. It looks like railway sidings serving a partly industrial complex. Top right might have been part of a marking once...

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Howard

Have a look at this railway map that covers a large area around Ypres. I looked for the pattern below at any angle of rotation but could not find it. The map shows standard gauge and narrow gauge railways but I think if this pattern is not of roads then it will be standard gauge railways with multiple lines, the bit on the right looks like a marshalling yard.

 

Howard

lines.jpg

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Michelle Young

Long shot, but could it be Lens? 

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eisenbahn.tv

Thanks for your answers. This seems to be quite difficult. Two others forums failed already to spot that town

 

A close up:

 

Bahnhof = railway station

unbebaute Fläche = open area

Güterbahnhof = fright depot

Betriebswerk, 2 Lokschuppen = Railway Depot, 2 Sheds

 

It's only a guess..

WWI-0663d.jpg

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Howard

There is a good feature by feature fit for Bapaume.

 

Howard

bapaume.jpg

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Howard

The fit is excellent.

 

Howard

 

bapaume2.jpg

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jay dubaya

Nice one Howard Bapaume it is, help yourself to fig rolls...

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Fattyowls

Excellent work Howard, I had a go at trying to fit the photo to Arras but it was all wrong on closer inspection.

 

Pete.

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Open Bolt

Excellent! How long did it take to narrow down the Western Front? to two squares?

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charlie2

Well done Howard, I think you have found the needle in the haystack.

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Howard

It took an hour or so. I realised the photo has some distinctive features, open fields to the left, compact “town” close by what looked like a railway yard and most telling, a zig-zag feature running at about 90 degrees to the railway. I looked at a few dozen town plans I have and thought of Lille, Ypres and other places with zig-zag features (old defences??). I was coming to the end of my list of towns when Bapaume popped up and it immediately looked right. A few moments rotating and scaling convinced me, especially when the trench lines fitted as well.

 

The place had to be at or close to the front, other aerial photos showing smoke after an attack are far behind the lines so could be discounted as they lack trenches.

 

It is the kind of Great War puzzle I enjoy but if it were not for the zig-zag I would not have started it.

 

Not that I intend to try, but dating it would be interesting, that could be researched at least in part from the wonderful Camera Returns series in the WFA’s Stand To! As some buildings are intact and others roofless, it should not be too hard for someone else to put a date to it.

 

As for the wind, it is from the prevailing South Westerly direction.

 

Howard

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egbert
Howard
1 hour ago, egbert said:

If you post the originals without overlaid text it would help others to use them. It would also make finding the positions easier.

 

Howard

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egbert
10 minutes ago, Howard said:

If you post the originals without overlaid text it would help others to use them. It would also make finding the positions easier.

 

Howard

Whatever image you need w/o "egbert"- let me know and I will send per PM

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Howard
1 minute ago, egbert said:

Whatever image you need w/o "egbert"- let me know and I will send per PM

I operate a free for all policy so everything will be posted. That seems to me to be the point of this forum, it aids learning and the free interchnage of material.

 

When I was scanning the IWM collection of maps and photos there was pressure from various places to deface the scans. I refused.

 

Howard

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Open Bolt
20 minutes ago, Howard said:

I operate a free for all policy so everything will be posted. That seems to me to be the point of this forum, it aids learning and the free interchnage of material.

 

When I was scanning the IWM collection of maps and photos there was pressure from various places to deface the scans. I refused.

A very sound policy.

Are you talking about the scans on iwm.org?

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Howard
1 minute ago, Open Bolt said:

A very sound policy.

Are you talking about the scans on iwm.org? 

No, the WFA Mapping The Front collection. About 9,000 scans that I completed over 4 years. The IWM insisted we charge for the DVDs and give them a (huge) cut, we tried to get permission to post the lot on the WFA website free of charge to them. An emphatic no.

 

My view as outlined then and now is that the maps and photos have been (over)paid for in Blood, Guts and Treasure and that as an act of remembrance, they should be free to access anywhere. McMaster does that, the NLS does it for the screen version, the Australians and Canadians do it free and I see it as a matter of disgrace that the British and German governments do not post their entire archives free of charge. It is not a matter of cost, the scanning has been done or could be done by volunteers, the bandwidth to allow free access would be pennies and in the case of the IWM maps, borne by the WFA and not any publicly funded organisation.

 

Howard

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GreyC

Hi Eisenbahn.tv,

have you notified the other forums in which you posted this question that the place has been identified?

Otherwise others in other forums might still work on this - in vain.

GreyC

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egbert

Howard, all of my non-identified images are posted here on GWF and are visible to anybody. If you think you can not participate in the quoted threads , just don't do it but please refrain from "educational" instructions. 

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Open Bolt
14 minutes ago, Howard said:

My view as outlined then and now is that the maps and photos have been (over)paid for in Blood, Guts and Treasure and that as an act of remembrance, they should be free to access anywhere

I couldn't agree more. The French and Americans also have photographs where they recognise the copyright has long expired. Given some German material fits this pattern, the British are probably the most grasping.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

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Howard

The issue of copyright gets lawyers going. In my view, the government should pass an explicit act/regulation/notice or whatever one calls it that defines with the utmost clarity that all Great War archives are freely published, not just free of copyright. There is no shortage of volunteers to do this work and would cost peanuts. There are 130,000 glass negatives at IWM Duxford and they are doomed to be locked away forever because officialdom in its various forms decrees it that way. A set of volunteers could have it digitised in no time and increase scholarship all round. All that stops it is a set of jobsworths.

 

Howard

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eisenbahn.tv

Howard,

that's great work! Thank you. 

 

(If any [noncommercial] archiv want's a high resolution scan - drop me a message. I don't own the rights - only a original print. But to my opinion the copyright belogs to the german army. "Done at work". And be shure the Bunderwehr always denies to be in any tradition/connection to former german armys ;)

Gabriel

(notifyed the other forums)

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