Gernika Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 I purchased 3 98/05 mostly to cannibalize scabbards. One 98/05 n.A is regimental stamped, here are if somebody keep records. 98/05 n. A , W17, 1920 and maker Weyesberg. Regimental is “star deleted” on metal scabbard and partially erased at ricaso P.W.3681 Blued blade. Any pics below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 It is a Weimar period bayonet The date 1920 on the crossguard indicates it. But still a desirable bayonet in very good condition. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 23 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2019 I like the “star erasing” method. looks like no country to invade such years and plenty of time to spend, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 27 minutes ago, Gernika said: I purchased 3 98/05 mostly to cannibalize scabbards.... What do you mean by canabalise the scabbards? And if you do I need a couple of frog studs and a pair of springs! This one here was re-issued to a Weimar unit. Apart from the 1920 mark, the unit marking (what is left of it) is on the outer face of the crossguard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 23 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2019 (edited) I keep the scabbards to complete other naked 08/05s. Edited 23 January , 2019 by Gernika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 Just now, Gernika said: I keep the scabbards for complete other naked 08/05s. Ah, ok, with you now... I though that you meant to take them apart and reuse the bits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie B Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 PW is a Police marking Two possibilities are Polizeischulen Westfalen. Used from 1922. Polizei Württemburg Source: History Writ in Steel German Police Markings 1900-1936 by L. Donald Maus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 23 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Richie B said: PW is a Police marking Two possibilities are Polizeischulen Westfalen. Used from 1922. Polizei Württemburg Source: History Writ in Steel German Police Markings 1900-1936 by L. Donald Maus. Thank you. I’ll choose second one, high number of weapons for a Police School think. Edited 23 January , 2019 by Gernika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 6 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said: It is a Weimar period bayonet The date 1920 on the crossguard indicates it. But still a desirable bayonet in very good condition. Regards D. Hi The bayonet dates for 1917 as indicated by the stamp in front of the guard the 1920 may be a date of reissue or a regimental number perhaps Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 23 January , 2019 Share Posted 23 January , 2019 23 minutes ago, Dave1418 said: Hi The bayonet dates for 1917 as indicated by the stamp in front of the guard the 1920 may be a date of reissue or a regimental number perhaps Dave Dave All Weimar Era bayonets stamped with 1920 on the crossguard, as and this one. There are also some with date 1921. Also is blued, characteristic of Weimar period bayonets. Offcourse it was manufactured on 1917. You are correct and I did not mention it as it was obvious. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 January , 2019 Share Posted 24 January , 2019 19 hours ago, Richie B said: PW is a Police marking... Well spotted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 January , 2019 Share Posted 24 January , 2019 14 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said: Dave All Weimar Era bayonets stamped with 1920 on the crossguard, as and this one. There are also some with date 1921. Also is blued, characteristic of Weimar period bayonets. Offcourse it was manufactured on 1917. You are correct and I did not mention it as it was obvious. Regards D. As D, wrote, all bayonets and other small-arms marked "1920" belong to the Weimar period. Under the Treaty of Versailles strict limits were placed on how many weapons could be held by the 'new' German army and police units, and those marked "1920" had been carefully listed so that the number of allowed weapons was not exceeded. In fact a document was issued indicating where the 1920 mark was to be placed on each type of weapon, and serving officers who had their own private-purchase pistols had to get these registered and marked as well. I must disagree with D, though that some were marked for 1921. I have been looking at these "1920" markings for a while and I have yet to see a certain example of such a marking. But I am happy to be corrected! By the way, German bayonets were never subject to "blueing" in WW1: this method of treatment (also known as "browning") is instead highly characteristic of WW1 bayonets as re-issued under the Weimar and into the 3rd Reich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 24 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2019 4 minutes ago, trajan said: As D, wrote, all bayonets and other small-arms marked "1920" belong to the Weimar period. Under the Treaty of Versailles strict limits were placed on how many weapons could be held by the 'new' German army and police units, and those marked "1920" had been carefully listed so that the number of allowed weapons was not exceeded. In fact a document was issued indicating where the 1920 mark was to be placed on each type of weapon, and serving officers who had their own private-purchase pistols had to get these registered and marked as well. I must disagree with D, though that some were marked for 1921. I have been looking at these "1920" markings for a while and I have yet to see a certain example of such a marking. But I am happy to be corrected! By the way, German bayonets were never subject to "blueing" in WW1: this method of treatment (also known as "browning") is instead highly characteristic of WW1 bayonets as re-issued under the Weimar and into the 3rd Reich. I have never seen or hear about 1921 marked bayonet. Google also don't know anyone. But I can't say don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 January , 2019 Share Posted 24 January , 2019 3 minutes ago, Gernika said: I have never seen or hear about 1921 marked bayonet. Google also don't know anyone. But I can't say don't exist. Well, nor have I ever come across one. My thinking is that somebody, somewhere, sometime ago, confused the 1921 manufacture date on a pistol with the 1920 marking, wrote something about this, so starting a belief they exist. Weapons in use by the Weimar had to be replaced with new ones when worn out and so new ones were being made after 1920, and they would not have the 1920 mark. But, we'll see if D. has one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 24 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: Well, nor have I ever come across one. My thinking is that somebody, somewhere, sometime ago, confused the 1921 manufacture date on a pistol with the 1920 marking, wrote something about this, so starting a belief they exist. Weapons in use by the Weimar had to be replaced with new ones when worn out and so new ones were being made after 1920, and they would not have the 1920 mark. But, we'll see if D. has one! I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 24 January , 2019 Share Posted 24 January , 2019 Julian and Gernika Unfortunately I do not have any 1921 marked Weimar Era bayonet. But I am posting the following photos from books about Ww1 and Weimar bayonet so you can see the existence of 1921 date on bayonets and small arms. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 24 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2019 (edited) Not only those books make reference to 1921 stamp. But never a single one has been seen. Edited 24 January , 2019 by Gernika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 24 January , 2019 Share Posted 24 January , 2019 Carter had several sold and there are references on his catalogues. Unfortunately I am not collecting especially Weimar bayonets but I have seen 2 of them all those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 Thanks D. Much as I place much faith in Carter especially, I am still doubtful on this matter of "1921" marked Reicswehr weaponry... It is just possible, I suppose, that a few were mistakenly marked this way. After all, some US M.1917 bayonets were marked as 1918! But until I see a clear example of a "1921" marked weapon I won't believe in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 On 25/01/2019 at 00:20, zuluwar2006 said: Carter had several sold and there are references on his catalogues. Unfortunately I am not collecting especially Weimar bayonets but I have seen 2 of them all those years. Hi D., By any chance could you send me a copy of an Carter catalogue referecing these 1921 marks? No great hurry but I am mystified... For what it is worth, here is what I have collected on the subject 1920 mark. On the 1st August 1920, Major Hugo von Pflügel, of Reichswehrministerium in Berlin, and then with the Inspektion der Infanterie, issued a memo regarding the Stemplung der handwaffen und Maschinengewehre der Reichswehr vor der allgemeinen Entwaffnung der Bevölkerung (‘The Stamping of the hand-held weapons and machine guns of the Reichswehr before the general disarmament of the population’). This was published in the Heeres-Verordnungsblatt 2/50, 704,HVB on 4th August 1920, and began by stating how the ‘imminent general disarmament of the population makes it necessary for all the weapons of the Reichswehr to be stamped’ according to marking instructions to be issued to the regular regional commands and to ‘Befehlstelle VI’, based at Münster. The style or type of marking was not specified in this decree, but it came with a diagram (reproduced in facsimile in A.Wacker and J.Görtz, Handbuch deutscher Waffenstempel auf Militär- und Diensthandwaffen, 1871-2000 (2005), 223) indicating where these marks, reading simply ’1920’ in letters 3.1. mm high, were to be applied on the relevant weapons. Although nowhere stated explicitly, these 1920 marks were in essence an Eigentumsstempel or 'Property mark' like a UK 'WD' mark. The marking continued to be used until 09.04.1921 09.04.1921, when the Reichswehr adopted a unified system of unit-marking of their own. However, some "luger" pistols made as late as 1934 had a 1920 mark added to indicate that they were military property – A.Davis, Standard Catalog of Luger (Iola WI, 2006), p.120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 Julian yes offcourse I will forward them to you by p. m. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 Efaristo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 5 minutes ago, trajan said: Efaristo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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