London Rifle Brigade

[David Earley]

I am researching Rifleman Stuart Botterill who was killed on 20 September 1917. CWGC record him as being with 2nd/5th Bn. London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade).while SDGW list him as serving with 5th (City of London) Battalion (London Rifle Brigade). Are these the same "unit"?

 

Can someone point me to where I can find the relevant war diary?

 

Thanks

 

David

[MaxD]

 

Two battalions of the London Regiment :

 

1/5th (City of London) Battalion (London Rifle Brigade) and 2/5th (City of London) London Rifle Brigade both of which in shorthand could be styled 5th Battalion.  The Register of Soldiers' Effects says 2/5th.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7355107

Includes a nice account of the action on 20 sep 1917

Max

Edited 23 January , 2019 by MaxD

[Ron Clifton]

Hello David

 

The LRB, like nearly all Territorial battalions, were divided into three "lines" at the outbreak of war: a 1st Line, denoted by 1/5, for overseas service, a 2nd Line, denoted by 2/5, of those who had not opted for overseas service, and a 3rd Line, denoted by 3/5, which remained in the UK and supplied drafts to the others. Later on, especially after the introduction of conscription, many of the 2nd Line units did go overseas, and that is what happened in this case. (In 1918, many of these 1/ and 2/ units were amalgamated and lost their prefixes.)

Here are the War Diary references:

WO 95/2961 169 Infantry Brigade: 1/5 Battalion London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) 1916 Feb. - 1917 July  
WO 95/2962 169 Infantry Brigade: 1/5 Battalion London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) 1917 Aug. - 1919 May  
WO 95/3005 2/5 Battalion London Regiment 1915 Sept. - 1916 Feb.  
WO 95/3005 2/5 Battalion London Regiment 1917 Jan. - 1918 Jan.  

 

They can be downloaded from the Kew website, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for about £3.50 each. You may need to add a suffix such as /1, /2 etc as there are two or more diaries in each file. If you have access to Ancestry you may be able to get them free.

War Diaries rarely mention individuals by name other than officers, but numbers of casualties each day are nearly always given, and the location of the unit, with a short description of its activities, is given on each day.

 

Good hunting!

Ron

[paulgranger]

David

 

Follow the link to 'Long Long Trail' at the top of the page, next to Forum Rules. There's a wealth of information there.

[MaxD]

When you have the war diary you can follow the action to the places named on the map/image at the link below.  Start in square C 11 up at the top right at Regina Crossroads which was almost the last step in the forming up march.  Among other locations, Hubner Farm, Stroppe Farm and Tirpitz Farm are all marked.  Mebus by the way are mentioned, means pill box/strong point in German acronyms, 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=50.8927&lon=2.9410&layers=101464639&right=BingHyb

 

Max

[David Earley]

Thanks to you all for the speedy and helpful responses.

 

David

 

 

[EastSurrey]

22 hours ago, David Earley said:

Thanks to you all for the speedy and helpful responses.

 

David

 

 

There is an excellent modern history of the L.R.B.-'Gentlemen & officers' by K. Mitchinson, as well as an earlier history published in 1921 and reprinted in recent years by Naval & Military. Furthermore, there has been quite a bit of discussion on the L.R.B. on this forum over the years.

A relative of mine, Rifleman John Palmer, died of wounds received 20.9.17, serving with 2/5th.

Michael

[chrrip]

www.ww1photos.com has a pic of him - I do not know the source. good luck with the research - the LRB History has a good account of the 20.9.17 battle. Chris

[David Earley]

I have, rather belatedly, completed my article about Stuart Botterill. It can be found at http://www.sussexpeople.co.uk/rifleman-stuart-botterill/. If I've made any mistakes, please let me know.

 

David

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. @David Earley hasn’t visited for a while, hopefully my tag will alert him to your post.

[David Earley]

On 27/04/2022 at 14:34, Isla MacLennan said:

Hello David, I am not sure if you will still be on this forum.  I have just joined it.  I have recently typed up my Grandfather's war memoirs and he mentions meeting a Rifleman Botterill at Harfleur camp in July 1917, which lead me to google his name, and then to your thread on here.  I wonder if he's one and the same?  He (my grandfather, who was in draft 80 of the London Scottish) wrote "Ah, Rifleman Botterill, I wonder how you fared ".  I'd be interested to hear from you, if you're still on here!

Isla 

Hi Isla

Thanks for the post and welcome to the forum. As you may realise, I am no longer a regular visitor here, so apologise for the delay in responding,

I don't know if you have now read the article on my website about Rifleman Botterill. From what you say, it would appear that he is probably the same man that your grandfather met at Harfleur in July 1917. Sadly, Stuart Botterill only survived for a short period, and was killed within 2 months of arriving in France.

 

Best wishes

David Earley

Edited 4 May , 2022 by David Earley

[alcatg]

On 27/04/2022 at 14:34, Isla MacLennan said:

Hello David, I am not sure if you will still be on this forum.  I have just joined it.  I have recently typed up my Grandfather's war memoirs and he mentions meeting a Rifleman Botterill at Harfleur camp in July 1917, which lead me to google his name, and then to your thread on here.  I wonder if he's one and the same?  He (my grandfather, who was in draft 80 of the London Scottish) wrote "Ah, Rifleman Botterill, I wonder how you fared ".  I'd be interested to hear from you, if you're still on here!

Isla 

Strange question, but my friend's grandad was in the LRB and I have tons of photos. I wonder if one is of your grandad.