BullerTurner Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 (edited) Let me start by saying I am no expert on the RFC/RAF, just interested! So I enjoyed the segment on the Sopwith Camel album, right up to the point where the valuer waxed lyrical on the Camel being "the Spitfire of the Great War". now as I said, not an expert but I am pretty sure that is inaccurate and the real ace-vehicle and best aircraft was of course the Royal Aircraft Factory SE5. Do any of you who are more expert and deeper interested have a view? Don't worry, I'm not too distressed! If I got distressed by the misapprehensions, errors and received myths fielded on the Antiques Roadshow about Great War artefacts, I'd never sleep Sundays! Edited 20 January , 2019 by BullerTurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Although by no means an expert. From what I have read about the SE5, it definitely became, following some modifications, the better machine of the two. It was more reliable, if not as manoeuvrable as the Sopwith Camel, it could also reach much higher altitudes of circa 20,000 feet, whereas the Sopwith could barely reach 10.000 feet. The SE5 was also much faster at around 120 mph as opposed to the Camel at circa 100 mph. The comment that the Sopwith Camel was 'the Spitfire of the Great War' is probably true to a point, certainly up and until the SE5 came upon the scene during 1917. Purely my own opinion, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Yes, but didn't Biggles fly a Camel? Also, the Spitfire was outnumbered by the Hurricane, a more robust aircraft, just like the SE5, so perhaps the comparison wasn't that far off (although we can guess what he was trying to say). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Actually, the comparison may not be that far off. Ask Joe (or Joanna) average to name a WW2 aircraft and most (at least in the UK) would probably say "Spitfire". Ask them to do the same for WW1 and "Sopwith Camel" is a far more likely answer than any other Allied aircraft type. Personally, I blame Snoopy for this global ignorance about other WW1 aircraft types! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 I wouldn't read too much into the Spitfire comment. Buffnut is right. Most popularly known was probably what was meant. For the record I know little about the relative performance of WWI aircraft! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Mates, Reminds me of that old joke about the German BofB fighter pilot and the British Fokkers he fought. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Those Fokkers were Messerschmitts (say it with an Irish accent!). Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 Attr: also Douglas Bader, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 21 January , 2019 Share Posted 21 January , 2019 7 hours ago, Old Owl said: The comment that the Sopwith Camel was 'the Spitfire of the Great War' is probably true to a point, certainly up and until the SE5 came upon the scene during 1917. The SE5 entered service on the Western Front in April 1917, the Sopwith Camel in July, and the SE5a in October. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 21 January , 2019 Share Posted 21 January , 2019 The Camel actually reached the front in June 1917; Flt Sub-Lieut Langley Frank Willard Smith DSC, a Canadian pilot in No 4 Squadron RNAS, was killed in Camel N6362 on 13 June 1917 when it broke up during the interception of 16 Gothas and fell into the sea five miles north-west of Bruges. His body was recovered and interred in Houtave Churchyard. In Appendix XXVII of The War In The Air by H A Jones, the Camel's service ceiling is quoted as high as 24,000 feet (with a 110-hp Le Rhone engine) and as low as 19,000 feet (with a 130-hp Clerget engine). The highest speed of a Camel given as 118.5 mph at an altitude of 10,000 feet with a 110-hp Le Rhone engine. The same Appendix quotes the service ceiling for the SE5 as 17,000 feet and that of the SE5a as 20,000 feet and indicated that both machines achieved a maximum speed (119 mph and 132 mph, respectively) at 6,500 feet. In terms of agility, I'd say Camel = Spitfire and in terms of gun-platform stability, SE5a = Hurricane. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 However, I'd not like to reload the SE5 top machine gun whilst airborne. The Camel was far better in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 I watched a Antiques Road Trip programme yesterday. One of the items was a WW1 medal, I'm not a medal specialist, but it looked like the 1914 Star. It sold for £45. But name on the rim was Sapper Arch Whitehouse. If this was the Arch Whitehouse some medal collector got a bargain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 Apparently the famous Arthur "Arch" Whitehouse did not get a 1914 Star. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 I only caught a glimpse but it appeared to be a British War Medal suspended on a Victory Medal ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbem Posted 25 January , 2019 Share Posted 25 January , 2019 Both expert and sleb seemed to think that he would have survived the war, unaware that the overseas service qualified whether survived or died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 25 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2019 Well, we all know what Michael Gove thinks about experts! 😉 I get the Spitfire/Hurricane comparison. Especially when one considers the number of top aces who opted to fly the stable gun-platform SE5a? Camels for splitarsing but an SE5a for business! Also the SE5a had none of the "vices" of the Camel's rotary engine. Oh and yes, @Interested, Biggles did fly a Camel (Biggles of the Camel Squadron et al) amongst other types. His logbook must have been fascinating reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T, Fazzini Posted 26 September , 2020 Share Posted 26 September , 2020 (edited) Arch White House {RAF] would prebably have qualified for 1914-1915 star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Whitehouse However I think the medal offered for sale came from a different Arch Whitehouse as he was a "Sapper" {Royal engineers] Arch Whitehouse of the RAF was by his own admission a Machine Gunner who was literelly taken from the trenches to become an observer.... Edited 26 September , 2020 by T, Fazzini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 27 September , 2020 Share Posted 27 September , 2020 Taffy Jones in Tiger Squadron said the SE 5 was the Spitfire of WW1 and hed flown both . So that's fairly authoritative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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