Buffnut453 Posted 19 January , 2019 Share Posted 19 January , 2019 (edited) Yes, I'm researching yet another relative and (as always) I'm getting lost in the acronyms. Soldier is Thomas Lee who enlisted on 1 Sep 1914 in the 12th KLR. His qualification is listed as MG so I'm guessing he was a machine gunner? He embarked for France on 24 July 1915 and was killed in action on 23 March 1918. His name is listed on the Poizieres Memorial. I have a couple of problems. First is his disciplinary record which lists a camp, I'm guessing in the Guildford area judging from the timeframe. Might it be Witten Camp? The second is his medical history. He suffered a GSW to the head on 4 September 1916 which is listed in his medical record with subsequent events: Thus far, I've come up with the following interpretation but I'd appreciate the help of the GWF cognoscenti in grading and correcting my homework: 4 Sep 1916 Wounded in action – gunshot wound to the head. Admitted to 14 CCP, 2/2nd London CCS and finally 6 Ambulance Train. 5 Sep 1916 Admitted to 26 General Hospital with gunshot wound to the head. 5 Oct 1916 ????? 7 Oct 1916 Note written reference Daily Orders indicating that Thomas Lee had been listed as killed following his injury (gunshot wound to the head) on 5 Sep 1916. Note confirms that Thomas Lee was still alive and provides a list of units which processed him including 26 General Hospital (Etaples), 6 General Depot (Etaples) and 5 Convalescent Depot (Cayeux). 9 Oct 1916 Returned to Battalion 12 Oct 1916 Appointed Unpaid Acting Rank – Lance Corporal 15 Dec 1916 Admitted to 36 Casualty Clearing Station because of Enteritis 16 Dec 1916 Admitted to 25 Ambulance Train for Enteritis 23 Jan 1917 ????? 24 Feb 1917 Returned to unit Interestingly, a badly damaged note later in his file indicates that he was listed as killed due to this injury. However, he clearly survived...sadly to be killed later in the war. As always, any help would be HUGELY appreciated as I try to decipher his record. Many, MANY thanks, Mark Edited 19 January , 2019 by Buffnut453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 19 January , 2019 Share Posted 19 January , 2019 (edited) Witley Camp was on Witley Common, Surrey. 4th Sept - That will be CCS, not CCP 5th October - Joined No.24 IBD (Infantry Base Depot) from 26 General Hospital 23rd Jan - Jnd (Joined No.24 IBD) x (ex-) ??? Edited 19 January , 2019 by Ken Lees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 5th October 1916 - Some abbreviated variation on: Transferred in to 24 Infantry Base Depot from 26 General Hospital. The 23rd January 1917 entry is going to be something similar. There is a good chance that he ended at No.6 Convalescent Depot at Etaples, from which men were occassionally moved to No 5 at Cayeux. I've just been looking at c600 men who were evacuated from the front line back to the coast in January 1917 where this was the case for a significant number of those who were treated in France and where records survive. Are you sure about him going to No.6 General Depot? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promenade Posted 20 January , 2019 Share Posted 20 January , 2019 (edited) Mark, I was born and brought up a few streets away from these addresses (the whole area has now been cleared and is now unrecognisable - although St Anne's Church is still standing) and thought you may be interested in the following. LEE, Private, THOMAS, 14600. 12th Battalion. King's Liverpool Regiment. 23rd March 1918. Age 31. Son of James and Elizabeth Lee; husband of Mary Gertrude Lee, of 41, Coleridge St., Kensington, Liverpool. (Pozieres Memorial - France) Born Edge Hill, Liverpool. As of May 1919 his siblings were Lawrence Lee aged 45 of 60 Penton St, Kensington, Fred Lee aged 34 of 49 Tudor St, Kensington, Annie Croston aged 43 of 26 Townsend Lane, Anfield and Mary Wyatt of 32 Brindale Rd, Birkenhead. Husband of Mary Gertrude Lee (formerly Stephenson) of 41 Coleridge St, Kensington, Liverpool - they married at St Philips Church 3/12/17. Enlisted Liverpool 1/9/14 in 12 KLR and qualified as a machine gunner. Aged 27 years 180 days at enlistment, occupation porter?, height 5' 5", weight 112 lbs, complexion sallow, eyes grey, hair brown, religion Roman Catholic. To France 24/7/15. Admitted 14 Corps Collecting Post 4/9/16 (shrapnel wound head). Admitted 2/2 London Casualty Clearing Station 4/9/16. Admitted 26 General Hospital (Etaples) 5/9/16. Joined 24 Infantry Base Depot 5/10/16. Rejoined Battalion 9/10/16. Appointed unpaid L/Cpl 12/10/16. Admitted 14 Corps Rest Station 15/12/16 (enteritis). Admitted 36 Casualty Clearing Station 15/12/16. Admitted Base Hospital 17/12/16. Joined 24 Infantry Base Depot 23/1/17 (from 4 Convalescent Camp?). Rejoined unit 24/2/17, Deprived of L/Cpl stripe 13/4/17 for neglect of duty. On leave in the second half of 1917 (presumably to get married). Thomas Lee was born on 6/2/87 and baptised on 13/2/87 in St Anne's Church, Liverpool. He was the son of James Lee and Elizabeth Lee (formerly Ashton) of 5, Shenstone St, Liverpool. Thomas Lee married Mary Gertrude Stephenson on 3/12/17 in St St Philip's Parish Church, Liverpool. Thomas was aged 30, a tailor, address of 41 Coleridge St and was the son of James Lee (warehouseman - deceased). Mary was aged 36, a spinster, address 41 Coleridge St, Liverpool, the daughter of William Stephenson (sanitary inspector - deceased). Left a wife at the above address. Enlisted in August 1914. Formerly employed by C Brockhill of North John St. (Charles Brockhill was a tailor in 22 North John St). A member of the congregation of Sacred Heart, Hall Lane, Liverpool. (Newspaper Report) Extracted from 12 KLR War Diary Berlancourt (Somme) 21/3/18 Heavy gunfire throughout the night & bombing by hostile aircraft at 4:00 a.m. At 4:25 a.m. Battalion stood to arms. On and off during the day, Bn alternately 'Stood to' and 'Stood down'. At 3:15 p.m. Battalion less details, marched to St. SIMON via VILLESELVE, CUGNY and ANNOIS. Battle positions taken up at dusk. 12th KING’S were on the left of 61st Bde Front guarding the TUGNY Bridgehead - 2 Coys in front system on line L.29.b.3.6. - L.22.d.3.3. to CANAL. 1 Company at L.22.c.3.5. Battalion H.Q. & Reserve Company at L.21.d. Details of Battalion marched to DOUILLY and joined Divisional Detail Battalion under command of MAJOR L.P. STORR, D.S.O. attd 7th D.C.L.I. St. Quentin Canal 22/3/18 12:30 a.m. Battalion withdrew to positions on Southern & Western banks of ST. QUENTIN CANAL & took up position on West Bank of CANAL from L.33.A. Central to touch with 7th BATTALION SOMERSET L.I., to L.15.c. where touch established with 60th Brigade on left. Battalion Hdqrs established at DURY (East end). Withdrawal complete at dawn and bridges of Canal blown up. 3:30 p.m. Patrol from Battalion examined Canal along Battalion Front and found all bridges destroyed. 5:00 p.m. Battalion received orders (in the event of falling back) to take up a position from CANAL junction, L.33.a.3.2. to Bridge inclusive at L.31. central. Touch established with SOMERSET L.I. on Right. St. Quentin Canal 23-24/3/18 8:45 a.m. Ordered to move at once as follows:- 1 Company to garrison Keep, R.15.central. 1 Company to Keep, R.13.a.8.8., remainder of Battalion to R.20.a.3.8. Battalion with 1 Company DURHAM L.I. attached in R.14.b.6.5. established touch with 7th SOMERSET L.I. on Left at R.9.c.0.5. The 61st Brigade came under the orders of the 36th Division. 25/3/18 - Liancourt The Brigade was 'bussed' up to LIANCOURT, where it joined the Divn; 22nd Division (French) also came up and it’s commander took the 20th Divn under his orders & continued the retreat. The French Commander retired South-westwards and the 20th Division moved Westwards to fill the widening gap between the XV111 and X1X Corps. 26-31/03/18 - Liancourt From 26th March until 31st March, a series of rear guard actions were fought during the retirement which was continued to conform with the general line of the units on the flanks. On 31st March, the Battalion was holding positions about 200 yards from HANGARD. Casualties during operations from 21/3/18 to 31/3/18 were as follows:- 3 Officers killed, 11 Officer wounded, 5 Officers missing. 17 Other Ranks killed, 136 O.R. wounded, 236 O.R. missing. 1-2/4/18 - Near Hangard Battalion in line near DOMART and HANGARD. Relieved on night 1st/2nd and marched to QUEVAUVILLERS. Casualties between 21/3/18 and 2/4/18 as follows:- CAPT. J. H. CAREFULL killed, CAPT. A. T. RICE-JONES, died of wounds 23/8/18. 11 Officers wounded. LT. COL. A. N. VINCE, CAPT. & ADJT. J. E. B. PLUMMER and 4 other officers missing. 15 O.R. killed. 142 O.R. wounded. 216 O.R. missing. 13 O.R. wounded & missing. He is commemorated on the war memorial in :- St Philip & St David Parish Church, Shiel Rd, Newsham Park 1911 Census Thomas Lee Age: 24 Address : 5 Shenstone St, Edge Hill - the dwelling had 4 rooms Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Occupation tailor Mother's Name: Elizabeth Lee, 66, widow, b. Blackburn Born Liverpool Lawrence Lee, 37, widower, warehouse porter, b. Liverpool Frederick Lee, 26, wholesale chemists assistant, b. Liverpool Annie Lee, niece, 4, b. Liverpool 1901 Census Thomas Lee Age: 14 Occupation : tailor's errand boy Address : 5 Shenstone St Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Elizabeth Lee, 55, widow b. Blackburn Where born: Liverpool Lawrence Lee 27, tin goods examiner, b. Liverpool James Lee 23, warehouse porter, b. Liverpool Mary Lee 18, tin goods labeller, b. Liverpool Frederick Lee 16, printers errand boy, b. Liverpool 1891 Census Thomas Lee Age: 4 Address : 5 Shenstone St Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Elizabeth Lee, 46, widow b. Blackburn Where born: Lincolnshire Lawrence Lee 17, warehouse lad, b. Liverpool Annie Lee 16, labelling girl, b. Liverpool James Lee 14, printers errand boy, b. Liverpool Mary Lee 8, b. Liverpool Frederick Lee 6, b. Liverpool Edited 20 January , 2019 by Promenade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 20 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ken Lees said: Witley Camp was on Witley Common, Surrey. 4th Sept - That will be CCS, not CCP 5th October - Joined No.24 IBD (Infantry Base Depot) from 26 General Hospital 23rd Jan - Jnd (Joined No.24 IBD) x (ex-) ??? Many thanks Ken. I did wonder at "CCP". It didn't make a lot of sense. 9 hours ago, PRC said: 5th October 1916 - Some abbreviated variation on: Transferred in to 24 Infantry Base Depot from 26 General Hospital. The 23rd January 1917 entry is going to be something similar. There is a good chance that he ended at No.6 Convalescent Depot at Etaples, from which men were occassionally moved to No 5 at Cayeux. I've just been looking at c600 men who were evacuated from the front line back to the coast in January 1917 where this was the case for a significant number of those who were treated in France and where records survive. Are you sure about him going to No.6 General Depot? Cheers, Peter I think you may be right about No.6 Convalescent Depot. The note confirming he hadn't been killed is very hard to read due to fire damage. Applying coloured filters and messing with brightness and contrast did help the readability. I've included it below in case any gurus can squeeze more info out of it: This is what I gleaned from the message: Copy 3rd Echelon 7-10-16 With reference Daily Orders Part? No.42 131 d(ated?) 2-10-16 No.14600 Pte T Lee King's Liverpool Rgt is shown as Died ????????? 9-16 whereas casualty ????????? received in this office ????????? the above soldier Inj (presume Injured) ????????? GSW Head adm 26 GH Etaples ????????? trans 6 Con Dept Etaples ????????? trans to 5 Con Dep Cayeux K(or R)??????? the above Casualty as no??????? ????????? action taken in regard to the ?????? ????????? named soldier. Edited 20 January , 2019 by Buffnut453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 20 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2019 10 hours ago, Promenade said: Mark, I was born and brought up a few streets away from these addresses (the whole area has now been cleared and is now unrecognisable - although St Anne's Church is still standing) and thought you may be interested in the following. LEE, Private, THOMAS, 14600. 12th Battalion. King's Liverpool Regiment. 23rd March 1918. Age 31. Son of James and Elizabeth Lee; husband of Mary Gertrude Lee, of 41, Coleridge St., Kensington, Liverpool. (Pozieres Memorial - France) Born Edge Hill, Liverpool. As of May 1919 his siblings were Lawrence Lee aged 45 of 60 Penton St, Kensington, Fred Lee aged 34 of 49 Tudor St, Kensington, Annie Croston aged 43 of 26 Townsend Lane, Anfield and Mary Wyatt of 32 Brindale Rd, Birkenhead. Husband of Mary Gertrude Lee (formerly Stephenson) of 41 Coleridge St, Kensington, Liverpool - they married at St Philips Church 3/12/17. Enlisted Liverpool 1/9/14 in 12 KLR and qualified as a machine gunner. Aged 27 years 180 days at enlistment, occupation porter?, height 5' 5", weight 112 lbs, complexion sallow, eyes grey, hair brown, religion Roman Catholic. To France 24/7/15. Admitted 14 Corps Collecting Post 4/9/16 (shrapnel wound head). Admitted 2/2 London Casualty Clearing Station 4/9/16. Admitted 26 General Hospital (Etaples) 5/9/16. Joined 24 Infantry Base Depot 5/10/16. Rejoined Battalion 9/10/16. Appointed unpaid L/Cpl 12/10/16. Admitted 14 Corps Rest Station 15/12/16 (enteritis). Admitted 36 Casualty Clearing Station 15/12/16. Admitted Base Hospital 17/12/16. Joined 24 Infantry Base Depot 23/1/17 (from 4 Convalescent Camp?). Rejoined unit 24/2/17, Deprived of L/Cpl stripe 13/4/17 for neglect of duty. On leave in the second half of 1917 (presumably to get married). Hi Promenade, Wow, that's a lot of info (I truncated your post to save a bit of scrolling! )! Thank you so much for sharing, and for taking the time to type in all that detail. That image is the best I've seen of Tommy. Most others are versions of the same but not as clear as that one. The war diary extracts are also hugely useful. It seems like the 12th KLR was moving around a lot at the time, which probably explains the relatively large number of soldiers listed as missing. You don't happen to have the war diary entries for 4 Sep 1916, do you? I'd be interested to learn what was happening on the date that he was wounded. Again, many thanks...and apologies for my greediness with the latter request. Kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 21 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2019 'Fraid I have another question. His date of death is given as 23 March 1918 but, based on the War Diary entries, it seems the entire situation was confused. The sheer number of soldiers missing as opposed to killed is indicative (to me, at least) of a messy, fluid situation throughout the period 21-31 March. How likely is it that Thomas Lee's death was witnessed? Is it more likely that he was one of the many missing but his status was subsequently changed to "killed" once it became clear that he wasn't among the survivors and wasn't in a POW camp? The only mention of his death date in his service records is a scribbled note on a form about disposition of his effects, but that note could easily have been added sometime after the fact. Apologies if this is a stupid question but I'd appreciate any enlightenment that can be provided. Kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 21 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2019 Adding this in here, although I've created a separate thread to highlight the discovery. It seems the image quality of service records on FamilySearch is far superior to Ancestry. I happened to look at Tommy Lee's records and the page I posted at #5 above is entirely readable when using the version accessible via FamilySearch: The full text reads: Copy to 3rd Echelon 7-10-16 With reference Daily Orders Part II No.42 On 2-10-16 No.14600 Pte T Lee King’s Lpool Regt is shown as Died Wounds 5-9-16 whereas casualties lists received in this office in respect to the above soldier Viz: HA 2281 GSW Head adm 26 GH Etaples 5-9-16 HA 2026 Trans 6 Con Dept Etaples 17-9-16 HA 2790 Trans to 5 Con Dep Cayeux 21-9-16 Kindly verify the above casualty as no action has been taken in regards to the death of the above-named soldier. It's nothing earth-shattering but it does provide the full detail of the note. Just sharing 'cos I thought it was interesting. You'll now be returned to your regularly-scheduled programme.... Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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