Riflm John Stanley Jones R38303 12bn KRRC captured on 16/8/17.

[Steve J]

Can anyone help with more info please. Was this the battle of langemarck ? I'm also trying to find the date he enlisted if possible 

Edited 14 January , 2019 by Steve J

[The Inspector]

Hi

Welcome to the forum

Medal award roll shows with 12th Battalion KRRC, MIC Brit/Vic....looking

Regards Barry

[Steve J]

Thank  you 

[MBrockway]

R/38303 would typically indicate to an enlistment in Jan/Feb 1916 and possibly a Derby/Group Scheme man.

 

There were a few men from 'B' Coy taken prisoner during the German counter-attack on the division's left, which began at c.16:10hrs on 16 Aug 1917.  The counter-attack was eventually repulsed and the position consolidated during the night, but casualties on the left were high.

 

For the overall battle, 12/KRRC had 47 ORs Missing, some of whom would have been POW.

 

I've posted maps of the Battle of Langemarck in other more detailed topics, which should be easily found using the Forum's search tool.

 

Mark

 

[Steve J]

Thank you mark for your help. My grandfather was from Goldcliffe near Newport South Wales so not sure why he enlisted in the KRRC. His POW record shows he was in the 12Bn and taken on 16th August 17 at Ypres. And the only action I could see for those dates wad At Langemarck. 

[MBrockway]

The two rifle regiments, the KRRC and the Rifle Brigade, were elite regiments who recruited nationally.

 

At the time their fame was high following on from great adventures in the Second Boer War as well as earlier exploits in the Victorian wars.  Both regiments were an attractive option for volunteers.

 

My own grandfather was from the Tenbury Wells/Bewdley/Kidderminster area of Worcestershire and 12/KRRC was his initial battalion, though he was posted back to 16/KRRC on returning from one of his several Blighty wounds, probably in late Spring 1916, and he saw out the rest of the war with them.

 

Mark

 

[MaxD]

His POW record says he was in B Company which Mark highlighted above.

 

Max

[MBrockway]

You'll find this post useful.  It concerns Capt Tom DOVE, commander of 'B' Coy, who was killed at c.17:00hrs on the same day defending the just captured EAGLE TRENCH from the enemy counter attack.

 

This was the occasion where the majority of the POWs were taken.

 

 

This trench ref is roughly in the centre of this view ...

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=50.9179&lon=2.9322&layers=101464630&right=BingHyb

 

Here's the square shown using the Muninn Project converter (but this is misbehaving mildly at the moment)

http://rdf.muninn-project.org/TrenchCoordinates.html?q=20.U.23.b.7.0

 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

And a map showing the positions around the time of the German late afternoon counter-attack.  The main German pressure came on the 12/KLR, who were forced back some 200 yds to the positions shown. 12/KRRC and the OBLI were obliged to also fall back to maintain a flank.  All three had been busy consolidating a line roughly on the Red Third Objective line shown on the map, and in line with the battalions either side.

 

Dove and 'B' Coy had been holding the left of the 12/KRRC sector to the right of the Brown crayon line (brigade boundary).  Tom Dove was killed in this position and this was where the men were taken prisoner.

 

The map shows the final positions of 20th (Light) Division before it was relieved by 38th (Welsh) Division on 19 Aug 1917.

 

 

Note the diagonal orientation.  The grid Eastings run N-S.

 

LANGEMARCK is on the bottom (SW) edge).  The STEENBEEK is about the same distance off the bottom of the crop.

 

Edited 15 January , 2019 by MBrockway

[Alan24]

13 hours ago, MBrockway said:

R/38303 would typically indicate to an enlistment in Jan/Feb 1916 and possibly a Derby/Group Scheme man.

 

Mark

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

Can I check if you mean 1916 or 1917 or is this a quirk of the KRRC numbering?

 

It's just that I have a 2/KRRC man R/33492 who received that number on 25th Oct 1916 having previously been TR13/402 from 1st September 1916 (14th Btn. at Seaford)

 

Prior to that, he had been R/17005 which was issued at Winchester on 24th Nov 1915. He was underage at that time and held back, finding himself in the TR before receiving his second KRRC number. 

 

Logic says that R/38303 should be early 1917?

 

Regards

 

Alan.

[MBrockway]

Alan,

This higher range of the KRRC R/ prefixes is notoriously difficult to unravel, which is why I said 'typically'!  It is definitely full of quirks and anomalies.

 

 

I'll sort out some examples to illustrate the challenges to proper interpretation.

 

Meantime it would be very useful to see your chap's service record - he could be an important case study.

 

What was his name?  He was obviously transferred out of the KRRC as I can find neither R/17005 not R/33492 in my KRRC database.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Alan24]

12 hours ago, MBrockway said:

Alan,

This higher range of the KRRC R/ prefixes is notoriously difficult to unravel, which is why I said 'typically'!  It is definitely full of quirks and anomalies.

 

 

I'll sort out some examples to illustrate the challenges to proper interpretation.

 

Meantime it would be very useful to see your chap's service record - he could be an important case study.

 

What was his name?  He was obviously transferred out of the KRRC as I can find neither R/17005 not R/33492 in my KRRC database.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

Mark,

 

I've sent you the info via. PM so as not to change the subject of this thread from one man to another.

 

Regards

 

Alan.