Leather buttons

[Raster Scanning]

This is Pte Percy Seaman Gibbs of the 7th Beds. He is wearing a standard 02 pattern jacket that has had the collar modified for a better fit.

My interest is that he has the non standard leather covered buttons sometimes worn on officers uniforms instead of the standard brass items.

Has anyone seen this before and can this be used to date the picture?

Elvin was KIA in March 1917.

Any help much appreciated.

[Joe Sweeney]

John,

The use of this type of leather button is very unofficial, and not officially sanctioned. Dating is not possible except I'd hazard a guess that it is before March 1917. What makes you think the collar has been modified? The only modification I would guess is a set of hook and eyes have been added under the collar to close the front.

How clear is the detail in the photo? That is can you make out any of the stitch lines for the jacket lining pieces? You can actually date a photo by some of these stitch lines (more like a no earlier than date). That is a man wearing an 8407/1915 pattern would have a date no earlier than June 1915. But the clarity of the photo is key. I'm not sure if this would be of any use to begin with as the photo would probably date sometime theformation of the Beds and his death. this method sometimes comes in handy when the man in the photo is known to have served from 1905 through the war and it might tell whether photo was pre-war or post but not to any specific calendar date.

However, the use of leather buttons on jackets was not that uncommon. In late 1914 leather buttons with Royal Arms were approved as an alternate in large, small, and cap sizes. These can be found fairly commonly particulary on Soft SD caps.

I have SD Caps with leather buttons, they are molded leather. If you get Militaria magazine you will see a jacket with leather buttons in, I believe, the June issue.

Joe Sweeney

[Muerrisch]

As an alternative to leather, might they not be dull/ dulled brass? Definition of picture on my monitoy not good enough to say one way or the other. The experience of war led to units sanctioning [perhaps even ordering] dull brasses in the line. To dull a button, expose it to a readily available waste product and await rapid results [that is, if the waste product could be spared, being in occasional demand for cooling the Vickers ......]

[paul guthrie]

For goodness sake the man is talking about pissing on government property! If still on active service with HMF I am sure Langley will be punished! Any suggestions as to what it should be? And if he is not surely Baker's Pals can set the punishment.

[Muerrisch]

Retired six years ago, therefore in the clear with regard to official sanctions, but awaiting sentence from Baker's Pals.