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flintman

Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch)

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flintman

Hello Forum Members. 

Help appreciated. 

I am researching :

206173 Pte Arthur Farrington Warner. 

Gunner Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch)

A Company I think. 

Killed in action 29/10/16. 

On Thiepval Memorial. 

I would like to find out how and where he died and if he was a gunner operating inside a tank at the time and if so which tank ? 

Any further details/help appreciated. 

Clive. 

 

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david murdoch

Clive. Definitely "A" Coy.   from CWGC. I'm sure one of the tank experts will be able to provide this information. What I know of him is he enlisted 2/5/1916 through the Motor Machine Gun Service recruiting and is listed in "The Motorcycle" newspaper of the following week. By this time the MGC had been created and most recruits were being channelled directly to Heavy Branch and destined for tanks, or to Motors  for the existing  motorcycle batteries or armoured cars. He's also most likely among the group photograph. He's commemorated under his Tank Corps number, but was serving and died whilst in MGC(Heavy) service and with his original service number 30874. Many of these early tank crew casualties ended up with a posthumous re numbering so are commemorated as Tank Corps when they died before well Tank Corps existed.

motorcycle16lond_0635 - Copy.jpg

motorcycle16lond_0635.jpg

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david murdoch

On his register of soldier's effects he's listed under his original service number. Also on this one gives 28/10/1916 as his date of death.

42511_6117463_0062-00244.jpg

Edited by david murdoch

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flintman

Hi David

Thats a great help and much appreciated. 

I have been told he was a gunner and in a tank when killed but cannot verify that by any means at the moment. I have no Tank Corps books or lists of crews etc. 

Thanks again. 

Clive

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delta

I do not have any details of this casualty so thank you for sharing.

I will let the other members of the FTC research group know and make sure he is remembered

Logo1.jpg

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david murdoch
15 minutes ago, delta said:

I do not have any details of this casualty so thank you for sharing.

I will let the other members of the FTC research group know and make sure he is remembered

 

 He was born 13th February 1895, Warrington. He's on 4 public family trees  on Ancestry, with  plenty of information on family, census, siblings ect. He's also noted on Wolverhampton roll of honour as being an Old Wulfrunian (Wolverhampton grammar school boy). On this he's noted as MGC. As mentioned above  working out the date from the listing in The Motorcycle he enlisted through the MMGS process on 2/5/1916 though it notes in the article they were really recruiting for Heavy Branch - so  he'd have gone directly to tanks. I'd expect most of these names from that group will crop up as being Heavy Branch/Tank Corps.95 Warrington, Lancashire, England February 1895Warrington, Lancashire, England

m0336-00114.jpg

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delta

He was not one of the reinforcement crew which joined D Company at the end of Sep 1916 and his death is not mentioned in the C or D Coy war diary. 

I can find no record of any A Company tanks in action on 29 Oct (so was not looking for a casualty).  

His being recorded on the Thiepval Memorial indicated original grave was lost. 

 

On     on,,,    

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david murdoch
1 hour ago, delta said:

He was not one of the reinforcement crew which joined D Company at the end of Sep 1916 and his death is not mentioned in the C or D Coy war diary. 

I can find no record of any A Company tanks in action on 29 Oct (so was not looking for a casualty).  

His being recorded on the Thiepval Memorial indicated original grave was lost. 

 

On     on,,,    

CWGC certainly says "A" Coy. I can find no newspaper  casualty list of him killed/missing  under his service number 30874.

doc5661310.jpg

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delta

Very happy to show him as A Company as we have little information on that unit.

He is remembered at St Jude's Church Memorial at Tettenhall.

I wonder if his number was 38074 (seems to be more suitable given other soldiers of his cadre).

The Army Record of Soldier's Effects shows his death as 28 Oct.

 

Edited by delta

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flintman

Thanks David/Delta

Thanks for looking at this. 

Is it reasonable to assume that if he was killed whilst a tank crew member and in a tank that  it would be recorded in

the Tank Corps records or is that over simplifying matters ?

Does this level of Tank Corps crew data exist ?

Thanks again

Clive

 

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delta

Data on individual tank crews is very sparse and A Company records from that period are almost non existent - for example I cannot locate the War Diary. 

He does not not appear on the Tank Corps Roll of Honour (but none of the 1916 casualties do - at that time, the embryo HQ Tank Corps was poorly staffed).

I can find no record of any tanks in action on either 28 or 29 Oct but he could easily have been killed by harrassing fire in the rear area.  What surprises me is that a man killed in the rear areas would have be buried in a field cemetery and a record found. 

 .    

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delta

He is also remembered on two graves at Wolverhampton (Saint Philip) Churchyard

Both show the date of death as 28 Oct 1916

second memorial.jpg

Grave.jpg

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delta

The Medal Index Card adds no extra information

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delta

The internet is a wonderful thing - https://wolverhamptonswar.wordpress.com/tag/st-judes-church/

 

Arthur Farrington Warner was born in Warrington on 13th February 1895, to parents Matthew Richard and Annie Warner. They moved to Wolverhampton, and by the 1901 census were living at 39 Chapel Ash, together with Arthur’s brothers Charles Matthew, Frank Savill and Harold Lumley, and a servant, Esther Hayward.

He started attending Wolverhampton Grammar School in January 1905 and left in December 1910. He then became an apprentice at the Briton Motor Works. He was also an active worker in St Mark’s Sunday Schools and honorary organist of Emmanuel Mission Church.

Arthur was a very active sportsman, being on the committee of Wolverhampton Swimming Club and polo team. He won both the Hickman and Rudge Memorial Cups in 1914 and, along with Graham Gardner, held the joint record for his time for the 216 yards Hickman Cup of 2 min 58 seconds.

He enlisted as a Gunner with the Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Section) (number 206173). He was killed in action on 29 October 1916, and details of his life and sporting achievements were featured in the Midland Counties Express on 18 November 1916. He is commemorated at the Thiepval Memorial and at the St Jude’s Church Memorial in Tettenhall. Wolverhampton Grammar School have also featured him on their site for “Old Wulfrunians who Died in World War One.”

warner.jpg

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delta

His obituary from his school magazine sadly does not give more details of his death

 

Old Wulfrunians who Died in World War One

Gunner in the Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Section) and employed recently in a ‘Tank’, was the youngest son of Mr M R Warner of 12 Allen Road, Wolverhampton.

Born on February 13th 1895 he came to the school in January 1905 and left in December 1910. He will be remembered especially for his prowess at football and as a very graceful and strong swimmer. On leaving school he became an apprentice at the Briton Motor Works, and gave his services ungrudgingly as a teacher at St. Mark’s Sunday School, acting also as honorary organist at the Emmanuel District Mission Church. As a member of the Wolverhampton Swimming Club he gained many distinctions and was the holder of the town championship and the Hickman Memorial Cup. He was killed in action on October 28th 1916.

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david murdoch
31 minutes ago, delta said:

The internet is a wonderful thing - https://wolverhamptonswar.wordpress.com/tag/st-judes-church/

 

Arthur Farrington Warner was born in Warrington on 13th February 1895, to parents Matthew Richard and Annie Warner. They moved to Wolverhampton, and by the 1901 census were living at 39 Chapel Ash, together with Arthur’s brothers Charles Matthew, Frank Savill and Harold Lumley, and a servant, Esther Hayward.

He started attending Wolverhampton Grammar School in January 1905 and left in December 1910. He then became an apprentice at the Briton Motor Works. He was also an active worker in St Mark’s Sunday Schools and honorary organist of Emmanuel Mission Church.

Arthur was a very active sportsman, being on the committee of Wolverhampton Swimming Club and polo team. He won both the Hickman and Rudge Memorial Cups in 1914 and, along with Graham Gardner, held the joint record for his time for the 216 yards Hickman Cup of 2 min 58 seconds.

He enlisted as a Gunner with the Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Section) (number 206173). He was killed in action on 29 October 1916, and details of his life and sporting achievements were featured in the Midland Counties Express on 18 November 1916. He is commemorated at the Thiepval Memorial and at the St Jude’s Church Memorial in Tettenhall. Wolverhampton Grammar School have also featured him on their site for “Old Wulfrunians who Died in World War One.”

warner.jpg

Death notice in Birmingham Gazette 8/11/1916. I'll have a go trying to pick him out in The Motorcycle photo. 

DEATH.jpg

warner_af.jpg

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flintman

Absolutely brilliant research. 

Thanks to you all. 

Maybe we can never get to the bottom of this one but I know so much more now. 

Clive

 

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delta

Thank you for discovering him.  Our task is not complete - we will keep him in remembrance

 

 

 

Edited by delta

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flintman

Thanks 

That is the most important thing 

here. One day someone will be 

able to add the final few pieces

to his story. 

Thanks again to all of your valuable contributions and to those who have viewed this thread 

and who may add to this in the future. Clive

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sotonmate

38438 Pte Lawrence Ernest Maeers.Tank Corps, killed at the same time and same unit. Any links to help there ?

He is shown on his Medal Roll as 1st Tank Corps.

Edited by sotonmate

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sotonmate

At Kew since last posted. Looking in the old red War Diary reference ledgers which still have shelves of their own. No ref there at all for A or B Companies, C and D are shown and are also findable on Discovery database. WO95/109 shows  A Company Heavy Section MGC at HUMIERES from 18 Nov 1916 but no reference to any previous Diary.

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delta
On 15/01/2019 at 22:38, sotonmate said:

38438 Pte Lawrence Ernest Maeers.Tank Corps, killed at the same time and same unit. Any links to help there ?

He is shown on his Medal Roll as 1st Tank Corps.

 

I am heading down to Bovington next  month to look at the A Coy / Bn box

Trevor Pidgeon obviously found something detailed as he has included a fair about of information about the Company in his book "Tanks on the Somme".

I will add Maeers to my list of First Tank Crewmen deaths. 

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david murdoch
On ‎15‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 16:38, sotonmate said:

38438 Pte Lawrence Ernest Maeers.Tank Corps, killed at the same time and same unit. Any links to help there ?

He is shown on his Medal Roll as 1st Tank Corps.

Fairly uncommon name so picking him up on Ancestry. His MIC, roll, soldiers effects, soldiers died  and CWGC are under service  number 40057.

Born 20/2/1898 in Ridge Cambridgeshire. to William George and Edith Helena. He had one  elder brother who died young in 1912. In 1911 Census living at 54 Ondine Road, East Dulwich, Camberwell. Soldiers died notes he enlisted Camberwell. 

 
 

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delta
On 15/01/2019 at 22:38, sotonmate said:

38438 Pte Lawrence Ernest Maeers.Tank Corps, killed at the same time and same unit. Any links to help there ?

He is shown on his Medal Roll as 1st Tank Corps.

 

Thank you David Murdoch

His mother's surname was Sandy - I have ordered the birth certificate to get more info. 

He attended Wilson's Grammar School in Camberwell and appears on their war memorial.

I have contacted the school to see if they are further details.

  

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