BEF Father & Son enlistments & family links to NZ soldiers

[SBW]

Kia ora. I am hoping to identify the names of a father and son who served in the British forces. The surname was GEORGE. Two members of this family also served in the NZ Forces. They had Somerset links. Mother was named as NOK: Madeline George, Stoke-under-Ham, East Stoke, Somersetshire, Eng. In Oct 1915, when the NZ-based brothers enlisted, an uncle was reported as having been killed at the Dardanelles. Any help identifying the British Forces family members would be greatly appreciated. With many thanks, Sue

 

 

[Madmeg]

Here's Madeline and children in 1901- she's shown as the head so don't know where Dad would be- he is back in 1911 though- Robert.

 

Do you have the names of the NZEF sons?

Edit-- Sapper Roland George of tunnelling Company 4/1426

 

 

Madeline George Head England and Wales Census, 1901	birth: 1868 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire residence: 31 March 1901 Stoke Sub Hamdon, Somersetshire, England	children: Roland George, Sidney George, Lily George
Madeline George England and Wales Census, 1901 Name Madeline George Event Type Census Event Date 31 Mar 1901 Event Place Stoke Sub Hamdon, Somersetshire, England County Somersetshire Civil Parish Stoke Sub Hamdon Ecclesiastical Parish Stoke Under Hamdon St Denis Sub-District Martock Registration District Yeovil Residence Note Castle Gender Female Age 33 Occupation Glove Machinist Relationship to Head of Household Head Birth Year (Estimated) 1868 Birthplace Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Schedule Type 172 Page Number 26 Household Role Sex Age Birthplace Madeline George Head F 33 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Roland George Son M 12 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Sidney George Son M 10 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Lily George Daughter F 2 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Citing this Record "England and Wales Census, 1901," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS8D-S8G : 8 April 2016), Madeline George, Stoke Sub Hamdon, Somersetshire, England; from "1901 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing Martock subdistrict, PRO RG 13, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.   Madeline George Wife England and Wales Census, 1911 birth: 1869 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire residence: 1911 Stoke Sub Hamdon, , Somersetshire, England marriage: 1887   spouse: Robert George children: Sidney George, Lily George, Fred George, Lenard George, Howard George   COPY   PRINT   SOURCE BOX      SHARE    Attach to Family Tree    Madeline George England and Wales Census, 1911 Name Madeline George Event Type Census Event Date 1911 Event Place Stoke Sub Hamdon, , Somersetshire, England County Somersetshire Parish Stoke Sub Hamdon Sub-District Martock Sub-District Number 3 District Number 309 Enumeration District 7 Registration District Yeovil Gender Female Age 42 Marital Status MARRIED Marital Status MARRIED Number in Family 7 Birth Year (Estimated) 1869 Birthplace Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Relationship to Head of Household Wife Schedule Type 141 Page Number 1 Registration Number RG14 Piece/Folio 281 Affiliate Record Identifier GBC/1911/RG14/14399/0281/2 Household Role Sex Age Birthplace Robert George Head M 42 Godalming, Surrey Madeline George Wife F 42 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Sidney George Son M 21 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Lily George Daughter F 12 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Fred George Son M 6 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Lenard George Son M 4 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Howard George Son M 2 Stoke Under Ham, Somersetshire Citing this Record "England and Wales Census, 1911," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7RD-3P5 : 21 December 2018), Madeline George in household of Robert George, Stoke Sub Hamdon, , Somersetshire, England; from "1911 England and Wales census," database and images, findmypast(http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 14, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.   In 1891 she is with her parents- another son given here...   Maddlen George Daughter England and Wales Census, 1891 birth: 1868 Somersetshire, England residence: 1891 Stoke Under Hamdon, Somerset, England father: George Shoemark mother: Harriett Shoemark other: Carrie Shoemark, Arthur Shoemark, Bessie Shoemark, Jim Shoemark, Annie Shoemark, Ada Shoemark...    COPY   PRINT   SOURCE BOX      SHARE    View in Family Tree Review Attachments   Maddlen George England and Wales Census, 1891 Name Maddlen George Event Type Census Event Date 1891 County Somerset Parish Stoke Under Hamdon Ecclesiastical Parish STOKE UNDER HAMDON Registration District Yeovil Residence Note High Street Gender Female Age 23 Marital Status Married Occupation Glover Machinist Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Birth Year (Estimated) 1868 Birthplace Somersetshire, England Page Number 20 Registration Number RG12 Piece/Folio 1897/ 108 Household Role Sex Age Birthplace George Shoemark Head M 46 Somersetshire, England Harriett Shoemark Wife F 46 Somersetshire, England Maddlen George Daughter F 23 Somersetshire, England Carrie Shoemark Daughter F 18 Somersetshire, England Arthur Shoemark Son M 15 Somersetshire, England Bessie Shoemark Daughter F 12 Somersetshire, England Jim Shoemark Son M 9 Somersetshire, England Annie Shoemark Daughter F 5 Somersetshire, England Ada Shoemark Daughter F 1 Stoke Under Hamdon, Somersetshire, England Edward George Grandson M 4 Somersetshire, England Roland George Grandson M 2 Somersetshire, England Sidney George Grandson M 1 Somersetshire, England Citing this Record "England and Wales Census, 1891," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WPRN-4PZ : 10 December 2017), Maddlen George in household of George Shoemark, Stoke Under Hamdon, Somerset, England; from "1891 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast(http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 12, Somerset county, subdistrict, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.   Robert George in 1881   Son England and Wales Census, 1881 birth: 1867 Godalming, Surrey, England residence: 1881 Martock, Somerset, England father: Henry George mother: Sarah George other: Henry George, Fanny George, William George, Rotchfort George, Rose George, Fred George    COPY   PRINT   SOURCE BOX      SHARE    Attach to Family Tree    Robert George England and Wales Census, 1881 Name Robert George Event Type Census Event Date 1881 Event Place Martock, Somerset, England Registration District Yeovil Gender Male Age 14 Marital Status Single Occupation Labourer Relationship to Head of Household Son Birth Year (Estimated) 1867 Birthplace Godalming, Surrey, England Page Number 5 Registration Number RG11 Piece/Folio 2391/39 Affiliate Record Type Household Household Role Sex Age Birthplace Henry George Head M 48 Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England Sarah George Wife F 36 Eynsham, Oxfordshire, England Henry George Son M 15 Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England Robert George Son M 14 Godalming, Surrey, England Fanny George Daughter F 11 Otley, Yorkshire, England William George Son M 8 Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England Rotchfort George Son M 5 Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England Rose George Daughter F 3 Martock, Somerset, England Fred George Son M 0 Martock, Somerset, England Citing this Record "England and Wales Census, 1881," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q276-45T9 : 13 December 2017), Robert George in household of Henry George, Martock, Somerset, England; from "1881 England, Scotland and Wales Census," database and images, findmypast(http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing p. 5, Piece/Folio 2391/39, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey; FHL microfilm 101,774,722.

Edited 11 January , 2019 by Madmeg

[SBW]

Thank you so much. Roland and Sidney are the NZ-based connection. Are you able identify a Robert George from Somerset who served? Would be great to have a serving father confirmed, if not another brother. Appreciate your help! Best, Sue

[Madmeg]

FreeBMD-   Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Marriages Sep 1886   (>99%)
GEORGE	Robert Edwin		Yeovil	5c	625
HIGGINS	Augusta		Yeovil	5c	625
SHOEMAKE	Madeline		Yeovil	5c	625
SHUMAKE	Madeline		Yeovil	5c	625
WHITE	Amos		Yeovil	5c	625

---

 

[Madmeg]

There aren;t many children showing up for this couple - looks like Robert may have had extended periods away from home. There are a number of children born in the Yeovil area - bt not so many they can;t be followed up but I would guess they are probably Robert's nieces and nephews rather than his own children. There are a couple of brothers who could be the Uncle you mention above.

There is a death for a Robert E George aged 66 in 1933 Yeovil and a Madelene George 1950 aged 82 Taunton.

 

I'll leave someone else to look at the military records as they are much better at it than me!

[SBW]

Many thanks, we have names. Neat! Great to have your help to fill out a father/sons who served for two countries story. Be fantastic to confirm UK military service for Robert Edwin George and one of his other sons. With thanks in advance to any others who can pick up from here. Cheers, Sue

[Madmeg]

This looks like it could be brother Edward

 

Edward Gerrge England and Wales Census, 1911	birth: 1888 Stoke Yeovel, Somersetshire residence: 1911 , , Overseas Military, military service:   ROYAL ARTILLERY DISTRICT STAFF AND 93RD COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY, ECHELON BARRACKS, COLOMBO,
COPY   PRINT   SOURCE BOX      SHARE    Attach to Family Tree    Edward Gerrge England and Wales Census, 1911 Name Edward Gerrge Event Type Census Event Date 1911 Event Place , , Overseas Military, County Overseas Military Sub-District Number 22 District Number 641 Enumeration District 24 Age 23 Marital Status SINGLE Marital Status SINGLE Institution ROYAL ARTILLERY DISTRICT STAFF AND 93 COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY Birth Year (Estimated) 1888 Birthplace Stoke Yeovel, Somersetshire Schedule Type 9999 Page Number 5 Registration Number RG14 Piece/Folio 787 Affiliate Record Identifier GBC/1911/RG14/34997/0787/6 Citing this Record "England and Wales Census, 1911," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VC-874 : 22 December 2018), Edward Gerrge, , , Overseas Military,; from "1911 England and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 14, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.

[SBW]

According to his file, Sidney aka Sydney was married in Yeovil 25.2.18. address for wife High Street, Stoke under Ham. Great, you have found the names of father and confirmed brother Edward served. Thank you! Sydney/Sidney came back to NZ.

[Guest]

Hello @SWB! 

 

It appears that Madeline George (Maiden name Shoemark) of Stoke Sub Hamdon was my great aunt! I am the great-great-grandson of George Shoemark (Madeline's father). Madeline's brother, William George Shoemark also travelled to New Zealand where he passed away on 28 April 1968 in New Plymouth. I have some photos of him and some other relatives if you were interested.

 

Are you of any relation to Madeline George?

 

Kindest regards,

Simon

[SBW]

Hi Simon

Great to hear from you, thank you. No, I am not a relative, my interest is in the men who served in the NZ Tunnelling Coy. I have a Facebook page called the NZ Tunnelling Company. I see that a James Shoemark from New Plymouth served in the NZDF and was killed at Gallipoli. He had Somerset connections and his medals were sent to a daughter living there. Perhaps he is also connected to Madeline George and another brother of hers? I would love to know more, if you are happy to email me direct suebakerwilson@gmail.com. I am very much interested in being able to tease out a better picture of the two brothers who served in the Tun Coy and especially to confirm family members both in NZ and the UK who served. I am also still hoping we can confirm Madeline's husband served, along with his three sons. Many thanks, Sue.

[George Rayner]

In Ancestry Roland has some details...

4/1426 L/Cpl NZ Engineers Tunnelling

3 years 133 days service

18.12.15 to29.4.19

Sorry if already known

George

[George Rayner]

Did Sydney live in England? Probate for a Sydney George in Stoke under Ham 1948

George

[George Rayner]

Although Sydney has number 4/1427 in NZ Nominal roll!

George

[SBW]

Hello George, thank you for looking into this brothers story for me. Sydney and Roland had consecutive enlistment numbers. Roland 4/1426 and Sydney 4/1427. There was another later enlisted tunneller with the same surname, 59109 Walter George. Different parents. Sydney was married in England, returned to NZ but may have returned there with his wife. Bit hard to read on Sydney's file, but wife's name was Eva May Chant. They were married in Yeovil. If there is death info with her names, that might give some clue as to whether Sydney went back to the UK. Also, if I can nail down info re Sydney and Roland's fathers war service, it will be the first proof I have of a father & his Tun Coy sons enlisting in two seperate Forces. There was one father/son combo in the NZ Tun Coy. Once again, thank you for your interest and help. Sue

[George Rayner]

Hi

this may be Robert's brother if an Ancestry tree is to be believed! Will need tracking to confirm through pre 1901 census...

 

First Name:

John Rochford

Surname:

George

Birth Town:

Woodstock, Oxfordshire

Resided Town:

Alresford, Hampshire

Nationality:

British

Date of Death:

06/07/1918

Fate:

Died

Rank:

Gunner

Service Number:

176323

Duty Location:

Mesopotamia

[The Inspector]

Hi 

John Rochford George b. Jan 1876 d.6.7.1918. 336th Brigade RFA, was Robert's brother. 1881 census shown as Rochfort George. Spouse was Alice Maude Cordock, when married in 1900 John's father Henry shown as deceased. Soldiers' effects Sole Leg. Alice Maud.

Regards Barry

Edited 31 January , 2019 by The Inspector

[George Rayner]

So the tunnellers had an uncle who served at least. Not having any luck with Robert-unless he is Robert Edwin. But there seem to be two of them!

George

[The Inspector]

Hi

Looks like he is Robert Edwin George married Madeline Shoemake on  2nd Aug.1886, Martock, Somerset. Robert's father, Henry a leather dresser.  Robert signed as Robert George, did not use his middle name.

Robert, born 1868 is on the 1871 census as plain Robert but was shown as Robert Edwin when a son Rowland was born in 1888.

Regards Barry

Edited 31 January , 2019 by The Inspector

[SBW]

The Inspector: Thank you for your time and interest in the story of two Kiwi Tunnellers who have a UK connection. In an earlier Post from Madmeg, as well as Sydney and Roland's parents names, she also provides siblings for their father Robert Edwin George. Included on the list is Rotchford George. So two different researchers have come up with the same answers, which is always a good thing:-)

 

Great that you have provided more with news that Sydney & Roland's uncle served; John Rochford/Rotchford George b. Jan 1876 d.6.7.1918. 336th Brigade RFA.

 

We can add this information to Madmeg's research showing Sydney & Roland's UK-based brother Edward also served. Madmeg provided 1911 census info; ROYAL ARTILLERY DISTRICT STAFF AND 93RD COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY, ECHELON BARRACKS, COLOMBO. 

Can you confirm Sydney & Roland's brother Edward also served in WW1?

 

George Rayner: Yes, father's was known as Robert Edwin. wife was Madeline/Maddlen nee Shoemark.

 

Madmeg, can you please double check that i have interpreted your research correctly:-) This genealogy stuff turns my head inside out:-)

 

Thanks heaps to all.

 

Sue

https://www.facebook.com/NZTunnellingCompany/

 

[SBW]

Sydney & Roland's uncle CWGC cert. Evidence suggests their father Robert Edwin GEORGE died in UK.  No evidence at this stage other than a historic NZ newspaper report that he served. 

GEORGE_J_R.pdf

[The Inspector]

Hi

Edward George baptised  Parish Church 18.11.1888 Stoke under Hamdon, Somerset, same day as Rowland entries 3145 and 3146 parents Robert Edwin (Ancestry states EDAM) and Madeline George.

1891 census Edward 4yrs with his grandparents George and Harriett Shoemark also present  Roland 2 and Sidney 1. Also baptised on same day Annie Shumack parents George and Harriett (3147) and Mary Jane Shumack, parent Sarah Jane. (3148) Address on  1891 census 130 High St.

Edward George birth reg'd 1st qtr 1887 Yeovil, Somerset, 5c,410....looking...death ? Edward George b.1888 died  Dec.1956  Bath, Somerset, 7c,39.

1911 census for Edward as already posted. 93rd RGA Colombo....looking

Robert Edwin George died  Yeovil, Somerset,  Dec, 1933 aged 66 yrs, 5c, 434.

Regards Barry

Edited 1 February , 2019 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Sydney George born 2.4.1890, christened 21.4.1895 Cong. Church, died  16th January, 1948, buried 21st Jan., probate granted to his wife  Eva May (nee Chant,married 25th Feb, 1918 Congregational Church, Stoke sub H) photo below she died 5th March 1995, Cannington, Somerset. She had remarried  a Harry Warr,1897-1977 in 1956, Yeovil, Somerset, 7c,735.. Eva May George-Warr left £109,444.

1939 Register  Eva May George b.20.1.1895, a grocer @ The Bakery East St., Bridgwater, Somerset with husband Sydney b. 2.4.1890, a Baker (as per 1911 census also) and their two daughters Edna E I George b.30.4.1922 and Eileen C George .b.5.8.1925. ( later married name Eileen Cynthia Tingle ) she died  Sept.1998

On page 591 of the NZ Army, WW1 Reserve Rolls, second entry down "George, Sydney, Baker, Arrowtown", Reserve Roll 1917 2nd. Div.

This is Robert Edwin George's mother Sarah Maria Whitlock 1846-1917

It is so easy to get the George families mixed up, as a number have done on Ancestry. The NZ connection throws doubt on a few of the trees. BUT some of the relationships are correct.      ie. John Rochford George 1897-1938 was obviously named after his uncle, his father was Henry Thomas, 1865-1935, Robert Edwin's brother.,Fanny George was born 1869 in West Yorkshire where Henry married Sarah Maria Whitlock on 7th Aug 1864. Looks like Henry died in 1891. in Martock, Somerset......looking....trying to sort it !

Regards Barry

Below Eva May Chant

Edited 1 February , 2019 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

20 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi 

John Rochford George b. Jan 1876 d.6.7.1918. 336th Brigade RFA, was Robert's brother. 1881 census shown as Rochfort George. Spouse was Alice Maude Cordock, when married in 1900 John's father Henry shown as deceased. Soldiers' effects Sole Leg. Alice Maud.

Regards Barry

This is John's daughter, Lilian Maude George, b.1904, Wandsworth, Surrey.

Regards Barry

[The Inspector]

Hi Again

The plot thickens....Robert Edwin George's youngest brother( he had 6 brothers and 2 sisters) was Sidney George b.3.11.1895 Martock, Somerset died Dec 1949 Bower Hinton, Martock

He served in WW1 as Pte.15030 Grenadier Guards and Pte 119, Welsh Guards (MIC and medal award roll on Ancestry)

Here he is

I

In 1911 he is at Caterham in the Grenadiers.Wounded in WW1 and suffered pain from head injuries for the rest of his life (According to a  PublicTree on Ancestry) Married Grace Mary Gillingham in 1927 (Second marriage)

Sidney and Grace.George.

Regards Barry

Edited 1 February , 2019 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

Hi 

It doesn't stop there..

James H George 1884 -1948, Brisbane, Australia. another brother, also served in the Army but pre war. I think I will stop here. Very interesting thread, thanks.

Regards Barry

Edited 1 February , 2019 by The Inspector