mindful45 Posted 9 January , 2019 Share Posted 9 January , 2019 Hi My family has this photograph - we thought it was of a Harry Thompson, serving in the KRRC, however it is possibly another soldier who from his uniform could have been serving in the West Yorkshire Regiment. So I am posting this photo here just in case there is anyone out there who may recognise him. Sorry I cannot be more specific than this at the moment, but I suppose you have to start somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 9 January , 2019 Share Posted 9 January , 2019 Not KRRC uniform in that picture - wrong buttons/brasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 9 January , 2019 Share Posted 9 January , 2019 Is it possible to see a higher resolution image of the shoulder title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 9 January , 2019 Share Posted 9 January , 2019 I am wondering if the shoulder title might be the Tank Corps "TANKS" version. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 15 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2019 No this is definitely NOT a KRRC soldier! He is either in the W Yorks or E Yorks. Confusion has reigned over this one, due to a number of factors. Now then, my Uncle has sent me this photo today (see attached) - could this be the same man? Also, can anyone identify this uniform? There is a cap on the table and this has an insignia on (too small to see) but perhaps this might be of use in seeking to clarify this ongoing mystery. Thanks. I have to tell you that the more we as a family try to identify who the photo I posted last week is, the more issues it raises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 15 January , 2019 Admin Share Posted 15 January , 2019 Possibly KOYLI cap badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTracer44 Posted 15 January , 2019 Share Posted 15 January , 2019 Could very well be the same man, or at least a brother or cousin. any chance of scanning in on the cap badge and so we can see it better. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 January , 2019 Share Posted 15 January , 2019 1 hour ago, Michelle Young said: Possibly KOYLI cap badge I wondered that, but the way the brim of the cap comes down over the badge, pretty well anything might be possible. KOYLI is my favourite, though. And I'd say they're not the same chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 15 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2019 What does KOYLI refer to? I shall try to scan the image of the cap more closely. I can't promise success but I will do my best. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 15 January , 2019 Share Posted 15 January , 2019 Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 January , 2019 Share Posted 15 January , 2019 (edited) I too believe the cap badge is KOYLI, a good spot by Michelle. The man in the first photo seems to have the same regiment’s shoulder title. Edited 15 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonmallen62 Posted 15 January , 2019 Share Posted 15 January , 2019 Could be same man on each photo one of his eyes is more closed than the other and the hairline is almost the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 16 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2019 Hi all, this is really interesting! Yes, I was looking at the Yorkshire Light Infantry badge online yesterday and from this really blurred image the shape appears similar. I also checked out the West Yorks Regiment and this is very different shape wise. I have tried to enlarge this then and my image is attached. Looks more like the former to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 January , 2019 Share Posted 16 January , 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, mindful45 said: Hi all, this is really interesting! Yes, I was looking at the Yorkshire Light Infantry badge online yesterday and from this really blurred image the shape appears similar. I also checked out the West Yorks Regiment and this is very different shape wise. I have tried to enlarge this then and my image is attached. Looks more like the former to me.... The KOYLI regimental depot and HQ was at Pontefract Barracks, Pontefract. Edited 16 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 17 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2019 That is really interesting. Many thanks. Incredible how the mystery of this man appears to have been solved. At least in so far as what regiment he served in. That is quite astonishing. Huge thanks to one and all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 January , 2019 Share Posted 17 January , 2019 (edited) I have been involved with this photo for many weeks now over in the Yeoman Rifles topic Here's the original, which I some weeks ago 100% demonstrated was NOT KRRC ... Here are close-ups of this man's STs ... These are clearly not KOYLI (ST, when curved = YORKSHIRE or, when straight = KOYLI, and both usually with a strung bugle above), but either East Yorkshire Regt (ST = E YORK) or West Yorkshire Regt (ST = W YORK) My own leaning is towards W Yorks Regt, partly from Mk I Eyeball, but partly because the OP's family also possess a Leeds Rifles sweetheart brooch. Leeds Rifles were 7/ and 8/West Yorks. I do concede that they also wore black rifles buttons ... but you all know my mantra on rifle buttons! Stronger evidence against the Leeds Rifles is the lack of a stacked/tiered TF-style ST. The Leeds Rifles ST seems to have been in the format T ¦ 7 [or 8] ¦ W YORK ¦ LEEDS RIFLES ... If the two battalions continued to wear this style ST during the War, then our chap must have been in one of the Regular or Service battalions of the West Yorkshire Regt who used the basic W YORK ST ... The other West Yorks TF battalions are also ruled out as they used a stacked TF-style ST like the Leeds Rifles, but with only three tiers - e.g. T ¦ 5 ¦ W YORK (bottom tier curving). War gratuity evidence discussed in detail over in the Yeoman Rifles topic proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the OP's KRRC relative could not have had prior service in any other regiment before joining the KRRC. Therefore the soldier shown above cannot be the OP's 21/KRRC rifleman, of whom there are other photos over in the Yeoman Rifles topic. I'll not post that here as it's not relevant and we're 100% happy it does show a KRRC rifleman! The new photo the OP has now brought forward, viz. definitely does NOT have the cap badge of ANY of ... West Yorkshire Regt standard battalions 7th or 8th (Leeds Rifles), West Yorkshire Regiment East Yorkshire Regiment KRRC ... and I am completely happy with the Pals' ID of it being KOYLI regardless that his STs are unfortunately obscured. This man therefore is a third soldier, who is neither the OP's KRRC relative, nor the (probable) West Yorkshire private, but a private in the KOYLI. In other words, the situation is ... Photo #1 (shown here below) = genuine KRRC rifleman, KiA with 21/KRRC and full identity known Photo #2 (the first photo in this topic and tagged in the other topic as 'Tommo's photo') = private in (probably) West Yorks Regt, identity unknown, and possibly linked with a Leeds Rifles sweetheart brooch Photo #3 (debut in Post #5 above) = private in KOYLI, identity unknown Since the family is based in Bradford, with roots in Goole, all of these regiments/battalions are local to the area. Assuming I've convinced you re the STs in Photo #2 at the top of my post here, then you will be mortified to see the OP has just posted this glorious news back on the Yeoman Rifles thread ... Quote Ps...re: Tommo's photo - it turns out this man was not in either the East or West Yorkshire Regiment as speculated - he was in the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. The shoulder title if you look is curved and is definitive of this regiment, and you were all right about 'ORK' as it says 'YORKSHIRE'. We resolved this one just this week, as I posted another photo on line ( a third) of a soldier that features his cap and badge - thus there are now two photos of Tommo's soldier on this forum This error re the soldier in 'Tommo's photo' being KOYLI is based on a misinterpretation of the discussion here about a different man who is NOT 'Tommo's soldier' - he shall be henceforth known as The Third Man! - and Liz and I would really appreciate support in convincing the OP this is the case. Cheers, Mark Edited 17 January , 2019 by MBrockway Further detail on Leeds Rifles STs added & probably therefore also eliminating Photo #2 being 7/ or 8/W Yorks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 January , 2019 Share Posted 17 January , 2019 Brilliant deductions Mark, they cannot be faulted and I agree 100% with both your assessment and your Mark 1 eyeball. I’m afraid I was unaware of the second thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 January , 2019 Share Posted 17 January , 2019 10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Brilliant deductions Mark, they cannot be faulted and I agree 100% with both your assessment and your Mark 1 eyeball. I’m afraid I was unaware of the second thread. ... nor did you have the benefit of the much clearer image of the West/East Yorks Regt chap! Many thanks for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 January , 2019 Share Posted 17 January , 2019 Over on Liz's Yeoman Rifles topic, the Mods have very wisely opted to separate out the new material on Rfn Harry Thompson, KiA 21/KRRC , into a new standalone topic here: The recent material on Harry as well as the discussions about the photos of non-KRRC soldiers owned by Mel's family is all in this new topic and no longer in Liz's main Yeoman Rifles topic. The older material from 2013 when we first investigated Harry Thompson remains in its original position in Liz's Yeoman Rifles topic, and the links in the 2018/2019 posts back into that original material are all still functioning correctly. A big Thank You to the Mods - keep up the good work! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 18 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2019 Thanks all. So we could have three different soldiers? Well, this mystery is deepening all the time. Ok, so looking into family history - there are two possibilities that I currently know of. Yesterday I discovered that there was an older Brother of Harry's called Arthur Thompson born in 1888, now I have no idea if one of these could be him - so any ideas how I would go about finding out if he could be either the chap in the W Yorks or the KOYLI? I have no other identifying information currently, no service numbers or anything. Also there was another brother William Thompson born in 1901, but I would have thought he was a bit too young to serve - unless we are talking towards the end of the war? I know the army took those who claimed to be older than their years.....but he would have been too young in 1914....I have looked into the possibility of sweethearts, and with respect to Tommo's photo - this was in his great Aunt's bible, now she was born in 1907, so she would be too young for this - and there is a second copy of this identical photo in our branch of the family line too - (there could be others out there that we don't know of too) suggesting that whoever this man was he was important to the rest of the family. So.….is the simplest solution that these are images of brothers? This is odd, as my Grandfather never ever spoke of anyone other than Harry being in the war, and as we know he was killed in 1916 serving with the KRRC. He never ever talked about any other siblings who may have served BUT then my Grandfather was born in 1910/11 and would have been much younger - which makes me wonder how well he knew his older brothers, especially Arthur who would have been 23 when he was born, and may not have been at home. This is all very unexpected. The more I explore, the deeper the mystery becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 18 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2019 Ps - at least we have resolved the mystery of Harry Thompson KRRC C/12149!!! Finally. Anyway, I shall continue my family research with respect to these other men. My uncle and I have spent the week looking at their ears and puzzling over whether they were or were not the same guy. Looking for similarities. However, if anyone else does recognise either of these men - if they are your relative say, then I hope this helps you too in resolving any questions you may have. Another possibility re: family history could be that one of these men was married to Mabel Thompson who was born in 1889, she died young leaving her daughter, Doris to be raised together with my Grandfather, so this is another line of exploration for me - could this have been her Father? As where was he? Could he have been at the front? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 19 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2019 Ok, so having done some more family research, Arthur Thompson seems to have been living in Goole around the time of the Great War, as he is recorded on the 1911 census there, working as a Dock Labourer and also married. There is also a record indicating he may have died in 1973 in Goole. So, could it be that the man in Tommo's photo is Arthur? This is pure speculation at this point, however, since Goole is in East Yorkshire, this may be a clue to this mans' identity. If that his shoulder title refers to the East Yorks regiment and not the West Yorks. Also it may indicate why Harry enlisted back in Goole - there was family over there, so perhaps the mists are clearing slowly. Interesting, there could be 3 soldiers (at least) that were serving in the Great War. Just have to resolve who these 2 were. I do hope there aren't more......but could there be? Beginning to wonder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 13 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2019 Re my post of 9th January, it is Arthur Thompson 46625 Machine Gun Corps. The photo was taken in Ripon as it turns out, during his recruit training. Prior to the machine gun corps he was in the Lincolnshire Regiment, hence the curved shoulder title. It has taken me a while to find this out, and there were other possibilities like indicated above - a few Arthur Thompsons around and about - one in Goole. My Arthur turns out to be buried in Bowling Cemetery Bradford, having died in 1920 in Tooting Military Hospital, a specialist neurological hospital at the time. He had shrapnel wounds to the face, embedded in his skull etc. Nasty. The other photo here - the one of the KOYLI soldier - that is Richard Andrew - he married Arthur's sister Laura. I managed to track down his family and they now have a copy of this photo for their records. Been a busy year. Btw I do have other photos - yes....and I am currently on the hunt for Albert Walker of the KOYLI number 1383 I think (according to his wife's death certificate). So if anyone knows him...…. or can help with this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 October , 2019 Share Posted 13 October , 2019 Thank you for the update. It’s been an interesting journey and I’m still deeply impressed by the way that Mark got to the bottom of separating out the 3 photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindful45 Posted 14 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2019 Yes indeed. Many thanks to Mark. And to those who tried to help in this search. It has taken me to some very interesting and unexpected places and I have learnt a lot this year. Although I have a LOT more to learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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