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Janet Durbin

Help- Could you please try to interpret this name

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Janet Durbin

I have tried before, but I am just hoping that someone will have a brainstorm and be able to see a name clearly.

I believe that A is his first initial and then  .......?

Must have been an officer, wounded and then returned to UK for convalescence in 1915. 

One of many who signed The Visitors Book in Polesden Lacey Hospital.

Be great if he could be identified. 

 

 

image.png

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sassenach

Jordan? Maybe G as second initial.

Edited by sassenach

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Janet Durbin

Don't think so. There is only one A G Jordan and he is a Private.

Looking at the first 'a' and the last 'a' they don't seemed to be formed in the same way....

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DavidOwen

Hello again Janet

Happy New Year!

 

It might have been better to resurrect your earlier thread or we shall just go over old ground again, with the same result...

 

However here are 2 possible candidates

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C704820

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1122594

 

Regards

 

David

 

Previous thread

 

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Janet Durbin

Happy New Year David,

Several people looking at the signature thought that it was an 'a' and then a capital letter with a flourish. It's a better photograph and one can see the letter formation better which raises other possibilities.

I tried to find my last thread but couldn't find it. A novice on this site.

What is the quote box for? 

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Janet Durbin

Don't think that's an 'e' as in Horden.

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DavidOwen

Janet,

The Quote box allows you to quote a previous reply.

To find a previous thread go to Content I posted in from the Activity button (which is how I found the other thread)

I agree it is an "A" followed by the surname. Used a * search on Hord which generated those options.

Let's hope we can crack it this time.

David

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Janet Durbin

Well, here's an up date for you.

One of my officers got married, C N Mattheson Ramsay,  in August and needed a witness. As luck would have it he took another wounded officer, A D Gordon.

There is no other officer with a name anything like this in 1915.

 

So A D Gordon was at Polesden from May until October 1915.

He was wounded in March (Lt). Got an MC. Was in the Royal Berkshire Regiment a Captain by August.

Stayed in the army and gained the rank of Colonel.

I guess to make it 100% certain I could make his signature....

But looks like I finally found him...only one more to go....

Edited by Janet Durbin
Typo

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travers61

a short bio of Charles Norman Matheson Ramsay is here & it confirms his stay at Polsden Lacy:

https://www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/biography/?id=WH27166&type=P&o=&start=60&max=20&l=r

 

his marriage was in Dorking Registration District Jul-Sep 1915 to Has[Z]ell C BOLTON (GRO ref vol 2a page 565).  This marriage cert should confirm the signature of  A D GORDON.

 

Looks like marriage is also recorded in Scotland as a public tree on ancestry shows:

11 August 1915 The Parish Church, Aberfoyle, Perthshire, Scotland

Charles Norman Mattheson RAMSAY Lieutenant Black Watch age 23 The Manse, Closeburn, Renfrewshire Father: Rev Charles Rolland Ramsay Master of Arts Minister of Closeburn Mother: Agnes Maude Campbell Ramsay MS Matheson Witnessed by: Father; Rev Moncrieff Taylor (?), Minister of Aberfoyle

to Hazel Cheney BOLTON

 

Charles survived the war & went on to patent in Canada 1929 a gramaphone needle made out of Keratin from a Xerophyte type of plant.

 

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Janet Durbin

I have the full records of Ramsay from Kew and Glasgow, and have been in touch with his family and the record needle company owner which is still producing the needles as Ramsay developed them.

Unfortunately the signature on the 'Dorking' certificate, in fact all of the details have been written in the same hand except for the bride and groom's. 

 

If you see the beginning of this thread the signature of Gordon is there. A clear 'A' and a very odd 'G', I don't believe the 'D' was attempted. It is only from the Dorking certificate that I have Gordon's rank and regiment. He was one of the last two of eighty that I couldn't trace as he had only signed his name, poorly.

It's him that I am trying to track. 

Might end up having to go to Kew again but I thought as he was awarded an MC someone might know of him.

 

 

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travers61

To have only two from eighty left is a fine result.  I have visited Polsden Lacy & can think of no finer place for a soldier to recover.   Interesting to see the needles are still being produced.

 

Looks like Gordon also got the DSO, per this LG entry in 1920:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31723/supplement/316

Other entries in the LG may yet yield his forenames.

 

Expect you already have these, but I saw three records on the PRO index for him, and noted that he was a Major, and 2nd Berks, 8th Division, attached MGC.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6444548

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6444547

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2376869

 

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Janet Durbin
3 hours ago, travers61 said:

To have only two from eighty left is a fine result.  I have visited Polsden Lacy & can think of no finer place for a soldier to recover.   Interesting to see the needles are still being produced.

 

Looks like Gordon also got the DSO, per this LG entry in 1920:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31723/supplement/316

Other entries in the LG may yet yield his forenames.

 

Expect you already have these, but I saw three records on the PRO index for him, and noted that he was a Major, and 2nd Berks, 8th Division, attached MGC.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6444548

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6444547

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2376869

 

I have the full records of Ramsay from Kew and Glasgow, and have been in touch with his family and the record needle company owner which is still producing the needles as Ramsay developed them.

Unfortunately the signature on the 'Dorking' certificate, in fact all of the details have been written in the same hand except for the bride and groom's. 

 

If you see the beginning of this thread the signature of Gordon is there. A clear 'A' and a very odd 'G', I don't believe the 'D' was attempted. It is only from the Dorking certificate that I have Gordon's rank and regiment. He was one of the last two of eighty that I couldn't trace as he had only signed his name, poorly.

It's him that I am trying to track. 

Might end up having to go to Kew again but I thought as he was awarded an MC someone might know of him.

 

Thank you Traverse 61

79/80 is pretty impressive, took,has taken five years but well worth it.

I didn't have these. Still trying to get onto 'Lives' They'll be useful tracking him at Kew.    

I'd still so love his names and his signature for a match. 

 

 

 

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Neil Mackenzie

The Threave Gardens in Kelton, Scotland were transferred to the National Trust of Scotland by Major Alan Gordon DSO, MC.

 

Assuming this is the man you are looking for the NT may have a copy of his signature. 

 

I tried to find the War Diary of 62nd Bn, MGC as he may have signed some of the entries in that but could not track it down on Ancestry. Other people may have more luck.

 

Neil

 

 

Edited by Neil Mackenzie

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travers61

Unless there are two officers named A.D. GORDON's in the Royal Berkshire Regiment in WW1, this seems to be our man & rules out the giver of Threave Gardens, who was a bachelor and only had the rank of Major in 1948. Two possibilities for a sig, marr cert & will.

 

 

Lt-Col Alan Douglas GORDON DSO MC and French Croix De Guerre

Early Life

Born 1st November 1891in  India

Baptised  7th December 1889 Calcutta India

Son of Lt Col Stewart Douglas GORDON (late 13th D.C.O. Lancers Indian Army) and Margaret Eleanor (nee HOGG). Both of his parents were born in India.

Attended Hailebury School 1904-1908 (Edmonstone House)

entered Royal Berkshire Regiment 1909

promoted Lieut 1911

 

World War One

5th November 1914, disembarks in France (this is the date that the 2nd Bn Royal Berks disembark in France, after being in Jhansi, India at the outbreak of war)

20th March 1915 Reading Mercury reports him as killed in action in a "Missing" article

awarded MC for Conspicuous Bravery & ability at Neuve Chapelle in March 1915

  He commanded a machine gun section, blocking parties & bomb throwers in a very able manner until severely wounded.

May-October 1915 Convalescing at Polsden Lacy

June 1915 Mentioned in Despatches  Lieut 2nd Royal Berkshire Regt      (LG 22.6.915 page 5999)

August 1915 witness to the marriage of Charles Norman Mattheson RAMSAY in Dorking Registration District.

1917 Mentioned in Despatches as Capt (temp Major) Royal Berks Regt  & Machine Gun Corps.    (LGS 25th May 1917 vol 30093 page 5167)

9th December 1917 a Major at 201 MG Company   (from MIC) [201, 202 & 203 MG Coy of 66 Division amalgamated in Feb/March 1918 to form 66 Btn of the Machine Gun Corps]

3rd June 1919 his DSO appears in LG.      (page 6818)

Listed on BVM & VM roll of Machine Gun Corps as a Lt-Col. (Royal Berks not shown on this doc)

 

Post World War One

October 1919 engaged to Angela Margaret HINE-HAYCOCK

24th Nov 1919 Captain In Royal Berks regt "restd" to the establishment. [London Gazette]

1st June 1920 marries Angela Margaret HINE-HAYCOCK   reported in two local papers. (GRO ref 2nd Q 1920 Honiton RD vol 5b page 75)

26th April 1928 arrives from Bombay, India in UK on P & O ship Ranchi, with wife Angela.

4th Jan 1929 departs UK for Bombay on P & O ship Ranpura, with wife Angela.

1935 Band of 1st Bn Royal Berks Regt plays in Folkestone area with permission of Lt Col A D GORDON MC DSO (Folkestone Herald)

Sep 1939 resident with wife, mother in law & two employees at Core Hill House, Sidmouth, Devon. He was of private means and on the Regular army Reserve of Officers.

1939 Army List Lt-Col Royal army reserve of officers

1942 & 1944 Army List show him as Lt-Col Royal Berkshire Regiment.

Died 27th Jan 1952. Probate of 1952 shows him resident of Foxwarren, Withycombe, Watchet, Somerset. 

 

I don't have a full membership of the British Newspaper Archive so could not look up the full articles there & the link to the webpage of Hailebury school did not work so info is just from a  search engine page.

 

This medal index card seems to be the right one and gave the address to work on.

 

32830587_ScreenShot2019-08-22at01_08_19.png.28d05004386dc18af7fbc6c9e52c65df.png

 

1279377982_ScreenShot2019-08-22at01_09_37.png.8b5b70cacea04a08a0307205b7b54961.png

 

The Times Newspaper of 13th October 1919 reports his engagement:

 

1965982271_ScreenShot2019-08-21at21_08_19.png.91c6429d635cc0ba9b9066b24be75804.png

 

 

His probate:

13196285_ScreenShot2019-08-22at02_52_44.png.ea8ed273838ee2070cb809cc7f3475ca.png

 

Probate for his wife:

 

1400378565_ScreenShot2019-08-22at02_57_20.png.b057d1923a8a00ea7af4c5df620362b1.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=alan douglas gordon&retrievecountrycounts=false

Ancestry public member trees for him & his wife

https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/castledouglas/threavegardens/index.html

search on duckduckgo for "Hailebury Alan Douglas Gordon" gave MC citation [That page on school website not working]

 

Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 21.08.19.png

Edited by travers61
notice of engagement inserted twice

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HarryBrook

Regarding Neil Mackenzie's suggestion to check the W.D. of 62nd Bn. M.G.C. for his signature, post #14, he was appointed to command a Bn. of the M.G.C. (Infantry) and to be actg. Lt.-Col. on 24 Sept. 1918  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31041/supplement/14196

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HarryBrook

The signature of Major A. D. Gordon, Comdg. 62nd Bn. M.G.C., war diary, 30 September 1918. Case closed!

 

 

Gordon, A. D., signature.JPG

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springer

Janet

 

Regarding this thread, you may be interested to know that a number of images of A D Gordon [And his medals] are viewable on the Regimental Museum Website at www.thewardrobe.org.uk] , once there click into COLLECTION then search on GORDON. [You will pick up other ones on this search but he appears quite a few times]. It does not answer you signature query, but you maybe interested in seeing the man as it were.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Springer

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Neil Mackenzie
On 22/08/2019 at 09:40, HarryBrook said:

The signature of Major A. D. Gordon, Comdg. 62nd Bn. M.G.C., war diary, 30 September 1918. Case closed!

 

 

Gordon, A. D., signature.JPG

Well done Harrry

 

Neil

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