Machine Gun Corps 1918

[Guest]

On 7 March 2015, Kenf replied to a post, submitted by a friend of mine, about Joseph TINDALL, who was in The Machine Gun Corps. Joseph was my Grandfather.

 

I have still been unable to find any additional information about his role in WW1 but I hope someone can help. I have a little additional information to that originally posted

 

Joseph TINDALL Machine Gun Corps, Military Number 170818 (I have his Medal Card)

 

He was born in 1884, so it appears he was 34 yrs old when he joined up, in 1918

 

Joseph worked for BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) for 42 years between 1914 and 1956, which is where I believe they made the Lewis Gun, among other weapons.

 

 I have a Battalion photograph, dated May 1918, identifying him as a member of No. 5 Company, 87^th Training (Reserve) Battalion. The picture was taken at Clipstone Camp, Nr Mansfield which billeted over 20,000 soldiers. Postcards definitely show that he was in France and Germany but it is difficult to be clear if he was involved in any fighting. I assume he was initially based at Carniers, France. The postcards he had relate to places nearby

 

It looks like he was de-mobbed in 1919. Joe was moved to “Class Z, active reserve” on 16^th October 1919.

 

Joe had a newspaper dated 29^th June 1919 – The Cologne Post, “Peace signed at Last”, so I assume he ended up in Germany.

 

I am surprised that at age 34 years, he joined up, or was he more likely called up

 

Is there any way of finding out what his role was. Do you think he trained others, or would he likely  have been on the frontline. I know the MGC is a difficult unit to investigate.

 

Did the MGC split training between, Vickers and Lewis or train on both

 

I’m just intrigued to discover what was the story behind what I consider, a late call up, at his age, and what his role may have been, especially as he worked at BSA.

 

Any info would be appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Simon Tindall (Great War Forum ID Tin123)

[kenf48]

As on the previous post, which your friend did not respond to, he had either previously "attested as to his willingness to serve" in late 1915 under the Derby Scheme but as a munitions worker was granted exemption from military service, or he was 'combed out' and called up as a conscript I'm 1918.  Military age was 18 to 41 for most of the war, extended to 50 in April 1918 so on the basis of age he was well within the parameters.  Under the Derby Scheme married men were told they would not be called up until the supply of single men were exhausted.  A promise that could not be kept.

 

I would favour the Derby Scheme especially as he was single at the time, the pressure on single men to enlist was enormous.  He was then mobilised as the need for men became more urgent and his job may have been taken by a woman or a less fit veteran.

 

The postcard from Clipstone Camp posted in May confirms my suggestion in the previous thread that based on surviving service records he was called up in April 1918 and posted to the 20th Training Reserve Brigade.  This unit provided basic training for men destined to be posted to the MGC.  After basic training they were posted into the Corps where training was typically a further six weeks or so.  Therefore I'm fairly confident as to the timeline in the previous thread though we can't say exactly when he was posted to the BEF.

 

The MGC was to a certain extent a 'technical branch' and while mechanical knowledge was by no means essential it would have been helpful to have some aptitude.  There was a requirement  to be physically strong and the Corps, which had just been re-organised in February 1918 suffered heavy losses during the German Spring Offensive, as did the rest of the BEF.  The MGC used the Vickers Machine Gun, the Lewis guns were deployed within the infantry Battalions.  

 

In spite of his age I suspect he would have been a junior member of the crew on initial deployment.  This site https://vickersmg.blog is invaluable if you want to learn what he did, composition of the crew etc.  By this stage of the war tactics had evolved and the heavy machine guns were used to fire barrages, much like the artillery. A few thousand rounds in an action was not unusual.

 

Camiers on the northern coast of France, close to Etaples, was the Base Depot for the MGC.  Typically men would spend a couple of weeks there familiarising themselves with trench warfare but 1918 was not typical and he may have been posted to an active service unit in the field after a couple of days at the Depot. 

 

I asked if he was taken POW, clearly not if he was in the Army of Occupation.   That also tells us he served in the front line, as the Army of Occupation was formed from active service units.   It's very unlikely he had a training role as he remained a Private from embarkation to demobilisation.

 

The date of his posting and the fact he was in in the Army of Occupation narrows the field a bit more.  Also if you have access to Ancestry you will see he was posted to the Class Z Reserve in October 1919 much later than his peers on the same page who were demobilised January-March.

 

In the reorganisation referred to above the MGC was organised into Battalions corresponding to the nomenclature of the Division to which they were attached so for example 29th Battalion MGC was attached to 29th Division which was one of the Divisions posted to Germany.  Ten Divisions were posted to Germany so that's a possibility of 10 MGC Battalions which would be a good place to start.  By no means foolproof but your postcards may give valuable clues as to which Division/Battalion he was posted to, most of the units were around Cologne.

 

Ken

[Guest]

Thanks very much for your response Ken, very interesting. I will take your lead and start researching, thanks again.

Best wishes

Simon T