Trying to find out more about my Great Uncle John Norton Lewis

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

I am trying to find out any information on my Great Grandmothers brother 

John Norton Lewis of the east Kent Buffs.

i know he was killed in action and is buried in France.

i would like to find anyone related to him and it would be great if there were any photos.

My Grandmother name was Lewis until she married the Horwell’s .

since then the Horwell men have had the name Lewis as a middle name to remember John .

A tradition I have upheld with my own son .

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Gary .

[DavidOwen]

Hi Gary, welcome to the forum.

 

I presume you have found him on CWGC, gives details of his wife and address https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/734148/lewis,-john-norton/ If you have Ancestry or FMP (most libraries have free access to one or the other) you would be able to trace him back further via the 1911, 1901, census etc.

 

He landed in France on 7th September 1914 so qualified for a Trio and clasp (image below courtesy of Ancestry free access).

 

Others will no doubt be along shortly with more information.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

David

Edited 2 January , 2019 by DavidOwen

[Langdon]

As David says, he's in the 1901 Census on Ancestry:

Name:John N Lewis

Age:16

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1885

Relation to Head:Son

Gender:Male

Father:William J Lewis

Mother:Mary A Lewis

Birth Place:Dover, Kent, England

Civil Parish:Dover

Search Photos:Search for 'Dover' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

Ecclesiastical parish:Dover St Mary

County/Island:Kent

Country:England

Street address: 37, Chapel Place
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: Boiler Cleaner

View image

Registration district:Dover

Sub-registration district:St Mary

Household Members:

NameAge

William J Lewis 44

Mary A Lewis 40

John N Lewis 16

Florence Lewis 14

Amelia Lewis 12

Barrington Lewis 9

Matthew Lewis 7

Alfred Lewis 4

Edith Lewis 1

 

and here he is with wife Daisy and their baby daughter Lillian in 1911:

Name:Jack Lewis

Age in 1911:27

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1884

Relation to Head:Boarder

Gender:Male

Birth Place:Dover, Kent

Civil Parish:Dover

Search Photos:Search for 'Dover' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

County/Island:Kent

Country:England

Street address:17 Pauls Place, Bridge St, Dover

Marital Status:Married

Occupation:ships Trimmer

Registration district:Dover

Registration District Number:65

Sub-registration district:Dover

Household Members:

NameAge

Stephen Stroud 51

Eliza Stroud 49

Stephen Stroud 18

Reginald Stroud 14

Harold Stroud 12

Clifford Stroud 10

Ernest Stroud 8

Jack Lewis 27

Daisy Lewis 23

Lillian Lewis 2

 

Mike

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

Thanks for your help David and Mike 

I’ve just googled his name and found this ,

it seems to be a 12 year old post from one of his relatives.

can see i find out if she is still on this sight?

she may be my missing link .

its from a long time ago so a long shot .

[MaxD]

You will have seen that he is commemorated on the Loos memorial to the Missing as he has no known grave.  He was among the many men missing after an attack in the latter stages of the Battle of Loos in October 1915.  His battalion were occupying trenches in the area south of the quarries (on the map/image at the link below near to the R in Route de Vermelles opposite the quarries):

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=50.4895&lon=2.7902&layers=101465011&right=BingHyb  3 of the four companies were in the attack and in essence were almost all wiped out (war diary) losing 11 officers and 400 men killed, missing or wounded.

 

You can download the battalion war diary from the National Archives for £3.50 at: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053522  (it is also on Ancestry if you have a sub).  He had gone to war on 7 September 1914 with 1st Battalion East Kents and transferred at some time (his detailed service record has not survived) to 6th Battalion..

 

Max

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

See advice on other thread:

 

[MaxD]

Hadn't seen the earlier post, glad the detail agrees!

 

Max

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

Hi Gary, welcome to the forum.

 

I presume you have found him on CWGC, gives details of his wife and address https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/734148/lewis,-john-norton/ If you have Ancestry or FMP (most libraries have free access to one or the other) you would be able to trace him back further via the 1911, 1901, census etc.

 

He landed in France on 7th September 1914 so qualified for a Trio and clasp (image below courtesy of Ancestry free access).

 

Others will no doubt be along shortly with more information.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

David

Many Thanks 

1 hour ago, Langdon said:

As David says, he's in the 1901 Census on Ancestry:

Name:John N Lewis

Age:16

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1885

Relation to Head:Son

Gender:Male

Father:William J Lewis

Mother:Mary A Lewis

Birth Place:Dover, Kent, England

Civil Parish:Dover

Search Photos:Search for 'Dover' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

Ecclesiastical parish:Dover St Mary

County/Island:Kent

Country:England

Street address: 37, Chapel Place
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: Boiler Cleaner

View image

Registration district:Dover

Sub-registration district:St Mary

Household Members:

NameAge

William J Lewis 44

Mary A Lewis 40

John N Lewis 16

Florence Lewis 14

Amelia Lewis 12

Barrington Lewis 9

Matthew Lewis 7

Alfred Lewis 4

Edith Lewis 1

 

and here he is with wife Daisy and their baby daughter Lillian in 1911:

Name:Jack Lewis

Age in 1911:27

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1884

Relation to Head:Boarder

Gender:Male

Birth Place:Dover, Kent

Civil Parish:Dover

Search Photos:Search for 'Dover' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

County/Island:Kent

Country:England

Street address:17 Pauls Place, Bridge St, Dover

Marital Status:Married

Occupation:ships Trimmer

Registration district:Dover

Registration District Number:65

Sub-registration district:Dover

Household Members:

NameAge

Stephen Stroud 51

Eliza Stroud 49

Stephen Stroud 18

Reginald Stroud 14

Harold Stroud 12

Clifford Stroud 10

Ernest Stroud 8

Jack Lewis 27

Daisy Lewis 23

Lillian Lewis 2

 

Mike

Many Thanks Mike

[MaxD]

Horwell/Norton Lewis

 

As you have visited the site since I and Dai Bach y Sowldilwr posted you may have missed our input.

 

Max

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

6 hours ago, MaxD said:

Horwell/Norton Lewis

 

As you have visited the site since I and Dai Bach y Sowldilwr posted you may have missed our input.

 

Max

Thanks Gentlemen for your much appreciated help and helping me find more pieces of the puzzle.

I joined a Facebook group just before Christmas dedicated to The Buffs .

And am keen to find out more .

[The Inspector]

Hi Gary and all,

The remnants of his service record are on Ancestry but his number  L/7776 is not shown other than on the record. He originally enlisted in the Militia in Canterbury No.6937 3rd  Regt District on 6.10.1903 and served for 11yrs 323 days. Although the records are badly burnt it is still possible to read the info. regarding relatives.https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/30971_172228-01074?pid=1183995&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D1219%26h%3D1183995%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D1543&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=30971_172228-01078

I see from his marriage cert. that his middle name is recorded as Norman and he also signed as Norman. There is a tree on Ancestry with his Attestation paper front sheet into the militia.

Regarding your family tree, was your g/grandmother Amelia married Thomas Edward 1911, divorced 1915? If so I can point you in the right direction.

Regards Barry

Edited 4 January , 2019 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

On 02/01/2019 at 15:53, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

See advice on other thread:

Hi Dai and all 

Thought you may be interested in the above before it gets lost in the archives.

Regards Barry

 

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

Thank you very much Barry 

yes Amilia is my Great Grandmother and Johns sister.

she was married to Thomas Edward and they had three children.

Then Thomas Edward Horwell went off with his secretary and went on to have another 7 children .

My brother in law spoke to one of the remaining 7 children a Ken Horwell who was very elderly and he never knew of the 3 older siblings.

He said he had some photos of his father in uniform.

we did make contact a few months later but he was very ill in hospital and we lost contact.

which was a great shame .

Thomas Edward Horwell is next on my list to find out about .

[MaxD]

Do you have dates/places for Thomas Edward H?

 

OK Got him in 1911 with Amilia and (possibly) 1939 with Florence etc

 

Max

Edited 5 January , 2019 by MaxD
found

[MaxD]

Were you aware that the divorce papers for TE and Amilia are at the National Archives?  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8010046

No immediately obvious military records except a man of he right age in the West Yorks 1917-1919 discharged with a Silver War Badge.

 

Max

 

 

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

My Sister and her husband have all the family tree stuff ,but unfortunately she has terminal cancer and is in hospital as I’m typing this ,

so now isn’t the right time to ask questions.

TEH went off with Florence but I didnt think they wed as he never got divorced.?

it was very shameful in those days and not discussed .

Amelia left with her 3 children ( Cryril being my Grandad but he died when I was 15)

and five items of furniture.

we still have two of these in the family.

when my brother in law spoke to Ken ( TEH) Son he said he was a bit of a Tirent and all the children had to dress for dinner and be seen and not heard .

which must have been hard if there was 7 children.

 

 

Thank you very much Barry 

yes Amilia is my Great Grandmother and Johns sister.

she was married to Thomas Edward and they had three children.

Then Thomas Edward Horwell went off with his secretary and went on to have another 7 children .

My brother in law spoke to one of the remaining 7 children a Ken Horwell who was very elderly and he never knew of the 3 older siblings.

He said he had some photos of his father in uniform.

we did make contact a few months later but he was very ill in hospital and we lost contact.

which was a great shame .

Thomas Edward Horwell is next on my list to find out about .

[MaxD]

Hve you read my posts of a couple of hours ago?  The papers at the National Archives are Amilia petitioning for a separation from Thomas Edward which may shed light on whether there was a divorce.

 

Max

[The Inspector]

On 05/01/2019 at 22:03, MaxD said:

Hve you read my posts of a couple of hours ago?  The papers at the National Archives are Amilia petitioning for a separation from Thomas Edward which may shed light on whether there was a divorce.

 

Max

Hi Max and all

To save time and expense, the Petition was for a judicial separation lodged on 24th June, 1915. It was agreed by the High Court and Thomas Edward Horwell (the younger) was ordered to pay maintenance of £2.10s. per week. He failed to do so and in 1929 the Executors of his will were ordered to pay £350 to his wife.

Regards Barry

 

 

 

[Horwell /Norton Lewis]

Sorry mate 

I haven’t been able to see on a laptop,

only on my poxy mobile.

ive mainly been in hospital with my sister and family as she has terminal cancer and is being moved to a hospice tomorrow.

its not I’m not interested I really do appreciate everyone’s help on the subject.

 

[Guest]

Hi John Norton Lewis was my great grandfather on my fathers side. His Daughter my grandmother only passed away a couple of years ago 2 days short of 102. Will message more info when I’m home from work.  I remember my Nan talking about some of these people.