Turkish rifle proof marks

[trajan]

A happy new year and Trajan still here, and keen to help clarify a point Shipping Steel made in post no. 122  of his now-locked thread at

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/166648-observations-of-bayonets/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-1631205

 

That is, an explanation for these markings as below... Well, I have found an explanation for these if you still need them matey!

 

Best wishes to you and one and all on GWF!

 

Trajan

 

[JMB1943]

Come on, Trajan.......don't be a tease!!!

SS may not need them, and neither do I, but I certainly WANT them.

 

Regards,

JMB

[trajan]

9 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Come on, Trajan.......don't be a tease!!!

SS may not need them, and neither do I, but I certainly WANT them.

 

 Well, I was always being told off for double posting! Opening this thread this way I knew I would find out from SS sharpish if he or somebody had posted the information before!  

I suspected that these were known to SS and other rifle buffs on GWF but seemingly not... And I did not want my wrists slapped this early in 2019, so better to be sure rather than sorry!

 

Anyway, Amberg on GBF and GWF informed me that Jon Speed, whom I do not know, has an extensive collection - if not the originals? - of the Mauser archives. I followed up the name and then through Google found this one - copies of the blueprints for the Turkish rifle markings - check out: https://gewehr98.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/mauser-oberndorfs-turkish-rifle-contracts-and-their-markings/ They don't quite match what SS illustrated from his collection but at least they are explained. Of course, one thing the link does not explain is the "bikini" mark on bayonets, but on analogy with the rifle markings, something that has been inspected and approved.

 

Hopefully I can get to see the Mauser originals in Germany - once I can be certain where they are! Not to check out the Mauser Turkish rifle contracts, but the bayonet ones... 

 

All best wishes,

 

Julian

[assafx]

thanks !

 

please chekc the rifles too (with the bayonets...)

 

Assaf

[trajan]

On 03/01/2019 at 09:40, assafx said:

thanks !

 

please chekc the rifles too (with the bayonets...)

 

Assaf

 

Hi Assaf,

 

These seem to be covered completely in Wolfgang Seel's Turken-Mauser series of articles spread through Deutches Waffen Journal, vol 17 (1981) with one in vol 18 (1982). The book by Yorulmaz, Arming the Sultan, also has some relevant information.

 

Julian

[assafx]

I read Yorulmaz, arming the sultan, and the book is not that detailed. in fact after reading Jonathan Grant and Jehuda Wallach i found that Yorulmaz book is not adding that much about the subject of german Ottoman ties and arms trade.

its main value is that it came out in english while wallach in german and hebrew

 

i can't reach seel's artucals from here.

[trajan]

17 minutes ago, assafx said:

I read Yorulmaz, arming the sultan, and the book is not that detailed. in fact after reading Jonathan Grant and Jehuda Wallach i found that Yorulmaz book is not adding that much about the subject of german Ottoman ties and arms trade.

its main value is that it came out in english while wallach in german and hebrew

 

i can't reach seel's artucals from here.

 

Yes, Yorulmaz leaves one wanting more... I have rather poor p/copies of Seel's articles from the vol 17, but not the single article in vol 18. How is your German? I can send copies of these but you will need to use your imagination' to supply some parts of the text! Is there anything you specifically want to know? I haven't read them all the way through yet....

 

I don't know either Grant's book or that by Wallach - if Wallach in German and Hebrew then should I order this (and Grant) through ILL? 

 

On another note, I am just about to learn some rudimentary bayonet Russian as i have a bayonet book coming here in that language... Should be fun - I can just about do the alphabet from archaeological work in the Ukraine - ok, not identical, I know, but near enough

[assafx]

you can find a reffernce to grant in Yorulmaz he also reffers to wallach in general.

 

Anatomie einer Militärhilfe: die preussisch-deutschen Militärmissionen in der Türkei 1835-1919.(Düsseldorf : Droste, 1976).

 

a few years later it was translated to hebrew.

 

i have a friend who tried to teach me, in vain,  german so i can find somone to translate it if needed.

and my wife was born in the forner ussr if you are lost with the russian. i always joke that all you need is a mirror in oreder to turn it into english.

 

[trajan]

Spaseba!

 

I was fortunate enought to spend 18 months in the 1970's Germany working as an archaeologist, and having a German girlfriend - and "Asterix" auf deutsch!  - then, and the reading of German archaeological journals since then, I am reasonably ok with the language - reading standard only though!. Of course I use Google if necessary with the extraordinary complicated manner of writing some Germans like to use - epecially philologists! If you have a more than basic knowledge of any language it works fine usually. Otherwise I call on my Bavarian colleague...

 

I'll try to get these Seel p/copies to you on Monday. They are not excellent as they were made from a series of monthly(?) magazines tighly bound into a single volume. I think they can be ordered on-line but I got mine through ILL.