Mapleneck Posted 31 December , 2018 Share Posted 31 December , 2018 I believe the photo below is of Alfred Edward Cartwright, born Gnosall, Staffs, 1897, died 1973. His cap appears to say HMS Yarmouth. Anyone know where I might find crew lists? No luck with finding him on Ancestry or Find My Past and he doesn’t appear on a website dedicated to Jutland, where I believe HMS Yarmouth served. Many thanks Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 31 December , 2018 Share Posted 31 December , 2018 A sight of his service record will give you the ships he served and the dates he served. I looked in ADM188 on Discovery database but no entry seen for this name and place/date of birth. This site requires payment for seaman records without download but it is possible to see postings if you enlarge the page (just so that you are sure this is the right man before you pay !). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 1 January , 2019 Share Posted 1 January , 2019 This is a list of 18 Cartwrights born in 1897 who joined the Navy. Do you know an exact birth date for your man? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_p=1900&_q=Cartwright+1897+adm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleneck Posted 1 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2019 Not his exact birth date but baptism was 4 July 1897. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleneck Posted 1 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2019 8 hours ago, seaJane said: This is a list of 18 Cartwrights born in 1897 who joined the Navy. Do you know an exact birth date for your man? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_p=1900&_q=Cartwright+1897+adm Looking at those on the list none of them appear to be likely candidates. I’ll go back and try to find out more about him. Many thanks to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 1 January , 2019 Share Posted 1 January , 2019 3 hours ago, Mapleneck said: Not his exact birth date but baptism was 4 July 1897. Hi, If he died in the England in 1973 that I suspect he is the Albert Edward Cartwright whose death was registered in the Stafford District of Staffordshire in the October to December quarter, (Q4) of 1973. If that is the case then the quarterly index of deaths in England and Wales for any year after 1969 also includes the date of birth – for this man it was the 25th May 1897. However there is no obvious probate for him. Most likely match on the 1901 Census of England and Wales is the 3 year old Albert Ed. Cartwright, born Gnosall, Staffs, recorded living at Newport Road, Gnosall. This was the household of his parents ‘Thos’ Archibald Cartwright, (35, Baker) and Anne Maria Cartwright, (37) – both born Gnosall. Albert had 4 siblings. The most likely match for his parents on the 1911 census have them living at New Cottages, Statfold, near Tamworth. Father Thomas, (47, born Gnosall) is now shown as a Cowman on Farm. The couple have been married 18 years and have had 10 children, of which 8 were then still alive. Only five of the eight were home on the night of the census and that doesn’t include Albert. In fact Albert doesn’t appear to be recorded on that Census for England and Wales at all. One possibile explanation for this was that he was already in the Royal Navy. While ships at sea as well as in in harbour were covered by the census of England and Wales, the exception was where another local census was taking place at the same time. So as a major part of the Home Fleet \ Grand Fleet were stationed in Scarpa Flo, a lot of Royal Navy men are recorded on the Census of Scotland. I can’t find anything for a Royal Navy or Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve rating that matches those birth details, but he may have lied about his date of birth in order to sign up early or get round the need for his parents to consent to him serving. Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 1 January , 2019 Share Posted 1 January , 2019 Thorough piece of work - well done, Peter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 1 January , 2019 Share Posted 1 January , 2019 20 hours ago, Mapleneck said: I believe the photo below is of Alfred Edward Cartwright Could you be mistaken in the identification? I cannot find any rating (RN, RNR or RNVR) who comes even close to a match with the details given, even allowing for enlistment under a false d.o.b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleneck Posted 2 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2019 Thank you all. I am beginning to question identification, although a number of family members think it is him. There is an Alfred Edward listed in the baptism records for St Lawrence church, Gnosall, parents Thomas Archibald and Anne Marie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleneck Posted 2 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2019 Picking up the Scotland 1911 census suggestion, there is an Alfred Cartwright listed as being Royal Navy, but It’s not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 2 January , 2019 Share Posted 2 January , 2019 (edited) Apologies if I’m making 2+2=5, but it seems there are discrepancies around the name used for the Gnosall born man, (which I’m sort of glad about as I thought I was having a senior moment when I re-read what I’d written The address where they were living in 1901 is showing as being in the Newport Civil Registration District. The birth of an Albert Edward Cartwright, mothers maiden name Cartwright, was recorded in the Newport District, which covered the Shropshire \ Staffordshire border, in the July to September quarter of 1897. You had 42 days after the event to register the birth, so a child born at the end of May and registered at the start of July would just come within that. The area covered by that registration district can be seen here:- https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/newport1.html That mothers’ maiden name had me worried for a moment in case there was a single parent whose indiscretion was covered up by Thomas and Anna claiming the baby as their own. The 1911 Census of England and Wales has Thomas and Anna recorded as married 18 years, so they won’t have had a daughter old enough to have had a child in 1897. And checking the marriage records a Thomas Archibald Cartwright married an Annie Maria Cartwright in the Newport District in Q1 of 1893. There is no birth of an Alfred Edward Cartwright registered in that District at any point of it’s existence and the only one in Staffordshire, (pre-1911), was in 1906. There is no baptism of Albert Edward Cartwright showing up at St Lawrence, Gnosall. It really does seem to be a case that you never see them both in the same room at the same time :-) 1901 Census extract attached if only just to reassure me I’m not going mad. Cheers, Peter Edited 2 January , 2019 by PRC Added reference to 42 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleneck Posted 3 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2019 Thanks Peter. Yes, there appear to be two issues, one over the name, Albert or Alfred, the other concerning basic identity of the person in the photo and whether or not he is a Cartwright. No, I don’t think you are going mad! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penfold Posted 25 May , 2019 Share Posted 25 May , 2019 HMS Yarmouth Crew List at the Battle of Jutland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 On 03/01/2019 at 10:14, Mapleneck said: Thanks Peter. Yes, there appear to be two issues, one over the name, Albert or Alfred, the other concerning basic identity of the person in the photo and whether or not he is a Cartwright. No, I don’t think you are going mad! Roger Hi roger, did you serve in the hms Yarmouth yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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