Army Units Near Inchy, 14 October 1918?

[Buffnut453]

I'm trying to identify units/formations located near Inchy on 14 October 1918.  A relative of mine was piloting a Bristol F2b Fighter on this date, carrying out a reconnaissance in the vicinity of Le Cateau, when the engine failed and he force-landed in the trenches.  His logbook records "Damn fine landing.  Pulled up in Hindenburg's first line trench  Engine cut out dead."  

 

I have the accident report but am wondering if this incident might be mention in any of the war diaries of units in the area.  I realize it may take a lot of digging across multiple regiments/formations.

 

Any pointers/advice would be most welcome.

 

Many thanks,
Mark

[sotonmate]

Seems to be likely a 4th Army zone. There is a map folder at Kew for this Army,area and period, and these often show the disposition of Divisions along the front. There are 50 maps for the general area over a date/time period which covers  up to 15 October 1918. Not going to be easy as you say, but you may at least get an idea of who was where in order to get into some Diary info:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1633082

[Buffnut453]

Wow, thanks Sotonmate.  That's certainly a starting point.  Luckily, I'll be moving from the US to Germany in the New Year which will make trips to Kew slightly more feasible.

[mebu]

For clarification, need to identify which Inchy.

 

There is Inchy just west of Le Cateau, which would correspond with the reconnaissance mentioned. However this is nowhere near the Hindenburg Front line mentioned. There is also Inchy (Inchy-en-Artois on modern maps), due west of Cambrai, which is on the front Hindenburg line. by 14th October this was well behind the fighting zone, having been taken by 63rd RN Division on 3rd September, the Canadians were then the major force in the move forwards.

Both villages of Inchy were outside 4th Army zone.

There is a good Canadian Official history (can't remember the full title at present) which has good maps of movements and progress in this area and I would suggest a look there.

 

Peter

 

 

Edited 1 January , 2019 by mebu

[mebu]

Further to the above: after the Canadian cavalry took the area around Inchy (the Le Cateau Inchy) the 3rd Army took over this area, the map attached may give some info. So. it is likely that one of the Divisions/battalions attached to 3rd Army may be have seen something.

 

But...this Inchy is nowhere near the Hindenburg Line, which is now a rear area. 

 

Peter

 

PS all the relevant diaries for 3rd Army units are available digitally from Kew, so a few hours on the computer and a lot of £3.50s may give the answer. New Zealand Division may be a good bet.

Edited 1 January , 2019 by mebu

[Colin W Taylor]

Mark,

 

Searching the war diaries on Ancestry for 'Inchy' gives the following - it might be a cheaper way of searching through the different units.  However, this would not include Commonwealth or Dominion units or Lines of Communication troops.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[Buffnut453]

3 hours ago, mebu said:

Further to the above: after the Canadian cavalry took the area around Inchy (the Le Cateau Inchy) the 3rd Army took over this area, the map attached may give some info. So. it is likely that one of the Divisions/battalions attached to 3rd Army may be have seen something.

 

But...this Inchy is nowhere near the Hindenburg Line, which is now a rear area. 

 

Peter

 

PS all the relevant diaries for 3rd Army units are available digitally from Kew, so a few hours on the computer and a lot of £3.50s may give the answer. New Zealand Division may be a good bet.

 

Peter,

Thank you so much for this map which really helps me get my head around what was an incredibly fluid situation in October 1918.  My relative hadn't been in France very long, only arriving in mid-September so his use of the term Hindenburg Line may refer simply to a recent German front-line position.  Frustratingly, he was based at Vert Galand and so either of the Inchy locations is possible, although I'm inclined to lean towards the Third Army location just because of the proximity to Le Cateau.

 

Clearly, I'll have my work cut out finding any reference in the war diaries...indeed, they may not even mention the crash.  However, it would be nice to pinpoint it in preparation for a future visit.

 

Kind regards,
Mark

[Buffnut453]

16 minutes ago, Colin W Taylor said:

Mark,

 

Searching the war diaries on Ancestry for 'Inchy' gives the following - it might be a cheaper way of searching through the different units.  However, this would not include Commonwealth or Dominion units or Lines of Communication troops.

 

Regards

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  My search skills often fail me with Ancestry but it's probably worth a shot (and, as you say, cheaper than paying for potentially dozens of unit war diaries).

 

Did you intend your post to include your search results?  If so, the results aren't appearing on my 'puter.  That said, I'm still grateful for the suggestion.

 

Kind regards,
Mark  

[stiletto_33853]

Mark,

It might be worth having a look at the 17th Division, 51st, 52nd & 53rd Brigade diaries. 3rd Army dispositions list them as in Inchy, although 53rd Bde was a little earlier in the month.

 

Andy

Edited 1 January , 2019 by stiletto_33853

[stiletto_33853]

V Corps

[Colin W Taylor]

Mark,

 

Apologies - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/ukwardiarieswwi/?count=50&e-Other-Unspecified=1918-10-1&keyword=inchy

 

I'd definitely agree with Andrew - a number of 17th Division units are listed in the results.

 

Regards

 

Colin

Edited 1 January , 2019 by Colin W Taylor

[stiletto_33853]

Inchy, just to the left of the V for Vth Corps area

 

Edited 2 January , 2019 by stiletto_33853

[Buffnut453]

Brilliant chaps!  Thanks so much for all the ideas and pointers.  Methinks I'll make a start with 51st Brigade and work from there.  It may take me a while since I'm moving to Germany on Friday...but I'll get there (perhaps sometime next week).

 

Your inputs have been a huge help!

Cheers,
Mark

[Buffnut453]

Well...it took rather longer than "a few weeks" but I finally started looking through Bde War Diaries, alas with little success.  Thus far, I've downloaded the diaries for the 50th, 51st and 52nd Bdes, as well as the 51st Bde's subordinate Bns (7th Border Regt, 7th Lincolnshire Regt and 10th Sherwood Foresters) but none of them mention any aircraft crash on 14 October 1918.  Perhaps I'll have more luck with the Bn War Diaries for 50th and 52nd Bdes.

 

The 51st Bde War Diary does have an interesting entry in an order dated 7 October 1918 which specifically mentions the Hindenburg Trench System.  

 

 

This suggests I'm probably searching in the right geographic area.  It's just a question of whether any of the war diaries specifically mention the crash of my relative's aircraft.  Thus far, it doesn't look promising.  

Edited 24 May , 2020 by Buffnut453

[Buffnut453]

And...now for the confusing part.  The 51st Bde record clearly aligns with the Inchy near Le Cateau based on the other nearby locations mentioned in the record (Montigny, Selvigny, Caullery and Neuvilly).  However, the trench map at Post #12 doesn't show a substantial trench system in that area, certainly not positions deep enough to have multiple defensive lines (the entry in my relative's logbook reads "Pulled up in Hindenburg's front-line trench."

 

So I started looking at the trench map for Inchy-en-Artois, again from September 1918 (via NLS).  The cropped section below does show Hindenburg Front Line and Support Line trenches:

   

 

 

Maybe I need to look at units in the area of Inchy-en-Artois as a better candidate location?  Any thoughts on these ramblings would be very much appreciated. 

Edited 25 May , 2020 by Buffnut453