1901 and 1911 Census Returns please. What are they indexed under?

[Bardess]

A frustrating 2 hours of trying to find above. I have the family in 1911 but no sign of John. According to CWGC Mother Annie is now Mrs R A Fitzpatrick living at the same address. I also found a John Bonner [poss father] who died in West Africa in 1915. The newspaper clipping suggests that 4 other family members are serving. Any assistance gratefully accepted

 

[Bardess]

Going rather cross-eyed as it's now 3am. Found Mother Rhoda Ann in 1939 Register [born 1864] still living at same address with husband John Fitzpatrick and sister Clara a couple of doors away. At this point I've no idea if John Fitzpatrick is John Bonner in 1911 or not. I've also no idea where the name Bonner comes from. I DO know that the West African death is a red herring

 

Sorry, must away to my bed. Nunite

Edited 27 December , 2018 by Bardess

[Bardess]

Cross off 1901 - I've found the family living not far from Unett Street - under Fitzpatrick! Just son John to find in 1911 now. Phew. Definitely bed time now!!!

[familyhistoryman]

Could this be the family in 1901?

Tony

[Bardess]

Ahahaha. Yup, that is them

[ss002d6252]

The effects show the mother as 'annie' so she may have dropped her first name on some records.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

I'm not sure on the 1901 census being the same family - the 1911 census states they had been married for 20 years. The parents ages don't tie in between the two census forms either.

 

I think this is the original marriage:


Looking around the rough period of birth shows

 

Craig

 

Edited 27 December , 2018 by ss002d6252

[dgibson150]

Craig

 

Good points, but Halstead which is near Ipswich doesn't seem likely as the marriage place.

 

David

 

[familyhistoryman]

According to the GRO the mother’s maiden name of the John born Birmingham in 1898 was Newsom

 

Regards

Tony

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Good points, but Halstead which is near Ipswich doesn't seem likely as the marriage place.

 

 

The marriage is the only John Bonner to a Rhoda that I can see which is recorded in the relevant time scale to match around the 20 years figure on the 1911 census,

 

Quote

According to the GRO the mother’s maiden name of the John born Birmingham in 1898 was Newsom

 

Allowing for a FreeBMD transcription error then that could fit the marriage.

 

Craig

[familyhistoryman]

There is a birth registered in 1864 September quarter in Birmingham for a Rhoda Annie Newsom

[dgibson150]

Tony (Familyhistoryman),

 

How did you get the mother's name of Newsom from the GRO. I thought it was only later that mother's maiden name became available in connection with a birth.

 

David

[familyhistoryman]

1 hour ago, dgibson150 said:

Tony (Familyhistoryman),

 

How did you get the mother's name of Newsom from the GRO. I thought it was only later that mother's maiden name became available in connection with a birth.

 

David

David. If you use this website

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

It is possible to search the GRO Index of Births 1837-1917 and obtain an uncertified copy of the birth certificate for £6 instead of the normal £9.25 for a certified copy. 

Tony

PS The search function is less limited than on freebmd

Edited 27 December , 2018 by familyhistoryman
Addition info added

[Keith_history_buff]

In the past 12 months, the FMP births have started showing the maiden name of the mother, which is useful.

The following are of interest:

Q1 1893 birth

CLARA LOUISE BONNER

Aston District, Warwickshire

Mother's maiden name: Newsome

Q3 1900 birth

THOMAS FITZPATRICK

Kings Norton District, Worcestershire

Mother's maiden name: Newsome

 

Very weird!

[Keith_history_buff]

No sign whatsoever of the twins, but did find a Q3 1903 birth of EDWARD JOHN FITZPATRICK

[Bardess]

So gratifying to see so much activity has taken place overnight and I thank you all for picking up my problem and running with it. I think they are the same family in 1901 and 1911 Census Returns as Clara, John and Ann are the main family members also seen in the 1939 Register. As with quite a few returns that I have seen, there are birth year anomalies [I actually think that Ann, in 1911, should read 48 but it was scribbled out and 40 was written. Anyhow I'm pretty happy with things at the moment.

 

On the 1911 Census I think perhaps the number of children born/died/living has been filled in incorrectly [just to add to the drama] but I still cannot figure out the 4 members also serving - it must be extended family possibly.

 

Thanks for reminding me, Tony, of the GRO website.

 

Either son John was working away or was put away? Still seeking. It's all great fun

 

EDITED TO ADD: Some marriages never actually took place

Edited 28 December , 2018 by Bardess

[dgibson150]

Thanks also from me Tony for the GRO steer.

 

David

[familyhistoryman]

10 hours ago, Bardess said:

So gratifying to see so much activity has taken place overnight and I thank you all for picking up my problem and running with it. I think they are the same family in 1901 and 1911 Census Returns as Clara, John and Ann are the main family members also seen in the 1939 Register. As with quite a few returns that I have seen, there are birth year anomalies [I actually think that Ann, in 1911, should read 48 but it was scribbled out and 40 was written. Anyhow I'm pretty happy with things at the moment.

 

On the 1911 Census I think perhaps the number of children born/died/living has been filled in incorrectly [just to add to the drama] but I still cannot figure out the 4 members also serving - it must be extended family possibly.

 

Thanks for reminding me, Tony, of the GRO website.

 

Either son John was working away or was put away? Still seeking. It's all great fun

 

EDITED TO ADD: Some marriages never actually took place

4 other members of the family are serving

 

You need to consider what is meant by “family” I have been using some Blackburn newspapers for WW1 information. One paper had a series on “Patriotic Families”. The families did not just included sons but also in-laws, cousins etc

 

Tony

 

[George Rayner]

If still a 'live' topic I'll see what I can find in the morning

[Bardess]

Yes, indeed, Tony

 

Thanks for your offer of another pair of eyes, George

[George Rayner]

Morning...well he is elusive isn't he!

Presume you have the medical record

MH106/932 MH106/932 can be found at The National Archives in Kew, and contains First World War Representative Medical Records of No. 2 General Hospital: 29/04/1916 to 06/05/1916. British Other Ranks. No. 2 General Hospital at LE HAVRE Ser: 4713-4963 and Transfers Ser: 4968-5406. Nothing abnormal detected but 9 days in hospital May 1916

which states he is 22!

Still looking for 1911

George

Edited 29 December , 2018 by George Rayner

[Bardess]

Thank you, George, I do have that entry and thanks for continuing to search. It's frightening to think that he was only 18 in May 1916 but passed for 22!

 

Small steps forward have been made in that Rhoda JANE [actually Ann] Newsom married Thomas James Bonner in 1886 and had 2 children - Clara and John. Thomas died in 1898 when John was less than a year old. I have not found a marriage to John Fitzpatrick [not that I think there was one] but the earliest child born of that union seems to be Thomas in 1900. Nellie [Ellen] was born in 1908 and I haven't found Albert 1902/3 yet. Well, that's it for now

[familyhistoryman]

Hi

I don’t know if following helps or just muddies the water

 

There is a birth registered in the King’s Norton District in 1903 for Edward John Fitzpatrick mother’s maiden name Newsome

 

Tony

[Bardess]

Nope, all information adds to the family story I imagine Ellen [Nellie on the 1911 Census] was her final child but it seems she only counted children from this partnership. I wonder if Albert is Edward John?

 

More questions than answers at the moment

 

[George Rayner]

Hi

More mud...

also a Frederick James b 27/12/1886 mother Rhoda Ann father Thomas James; 5 Margaret's Place

 

George