KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Hello Would anyone be able to help me with identifying this uniform (military/police ?) and the medals please ? The child in the photo was born in 1898 so it was probably taken in around 1905 I would think. The man is my great great uncle and I am just curious to find out a little bit more about him but am struggling ! Thanks Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) He is an soldier in the Royal Artillery. He wears the flaming grenade collar badges of the Royal Artillery. He also has the Queen's South Africa Medal (left as we look) and King's South Africa Medal (right as we look) awarded for service in the 2nd Boer War (1899-1902). Also visible on his left cuff is a Gunnery Prize Badge (cross cannon guns with a crown above). I think that there is a trace of the "Austrian knot" visible on his left cuff. Steve. Edited 27 December , 2018 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) I agree with Steve, Royal Artillery wearing 9-button full dress tunic. There were two main branches, Field and Garrison Artillery, each with a sub-branch, Horse and Mountain Artillery, respectively. It’s not possible to establish from the photo which of these your man was with, as key visual indicators are not discernible. The medals and piping around his collar indicate that he was a regular soldier and not a part-time auxiliary. NB. The small vertical metal bar adjacent to his fourth button is a pocket watch fob (T-bar). Edited 27 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Wow, so much information and so quickly - thank you so much Steve. I have spent hours staring at photos of uniforms and medals, wish I'd come across this site sooner now ! Is there anywhere online that I can find out more information about his time during that war ? Unfortunately I'm not sure which of two brothers he is so only have his surname ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Give us the possible names, ages, family details (and Census information, etc.) and we will give you some pointers. His Boer War Medals probably mean he will be "missing" from the 1901 Census. He may well be of age to have still served in the Great War - which is what this site is all about. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Well I know that he is either William John Gates born 1869 in Stevenage or Frederick Sydney Gates born 1879 in Shephall, Herts. They both appear on the 1881 census at Broadwater, Shephall but only Frederick is still there in 1891. I haven't found any definite info on either of them after that. Although apparently one died after being hit by a car when "quite young". If it is the younger of the two in the photo then I was hoping to find out if he then served in WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) Once you have unit details ascertained from a named man’s records, assuming that they have survived, you can look for further information here: https://www.angloboerwar.com/ Edited 27 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) I think there is a set of service records for Frederick Gates. I have found a set on Ancestry (and presumably the same is on FindMyPast). Address is given as Broadwater, Stevenage. Family details are: Wife: Ellen Mary Taplin, married at Stevenage, 25-8-1906 Children: Frederick James (born 6-10-1908 at Highgate), Rhoda Mabel (born 2-11-1910 at Finchley) and Alice Olive May (born 17-11-1912 at Finchley). Father: James, of Broadwater, Stevenage Older brother: William, of Broadwater, Stevenage Younger sister: Annie, of Broadwater, Stevenage This one looks likely! Are the family details right? It is a bit of an unusual one in that he served in the Boer War with the 4th (Militia) Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment and then switched to the Artillery, on Regular Army terms of enlistment, in 1902. No. 3836 in the Bedfordshire Regiment and then No. 29598 in the Royal Field Artillery from December 1902 until discharged in January 1916 having served 13 years. His service consisted of 3 years on active service 1902 to 1905 then on Reserve until recalled in August 1914. He was discharged as "Time Expired" having served for the standard 12 years + 1 extra for wartime conditions. He served as a Driver with 14 Artillery Brigade, Royal Field Artillery (part of 4th Division) in the Great War from August 1914 to December 1915 - so probably saw action at Le Cateau (4th Division having arrived in France after Mons), the Aisne, the late 1914 Battles around Armentieres and at the Second Battle of Ypres. Steve. Edited 27 December , 2018 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Those family details are right, yes. I'm a bit confused now though … Are the names of his older brother and younger sister actually mentioned on the service records ? It's just that there is another Frederick (George) Gates baptised in 1884 in Shephall also with a father called James. Unfortunately I only have access to FindMyPast and haven't found any service records on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Yes they are named - as attached: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) I cannot access FMP but I think the record is this one - with a completely misleading location! Gates Frederick — — — British Army Service Records Broad Marston, Gloucestershire, England https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sourcecategory=armed+forces+%26+conflict&lastname=gates&regiment=royal+field+artillery&soldiernumber=29598&sourcecountry=great+britain I narrowed down by name Frederick Gates, regiment: Royal Field Artillery, and number 29598 Steve. Edited 27 December , 2018 by Stebie9173 Clarification of search criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2018 I obviously need to improve my searching skills as that is definitely the right person - his younger sister Annie was my great grandmother ! Thank you so much for helping me out, I'm a bit of a novice at this and still trying to get my head around my grandfather's WW2 service records. If I come across any other old military photos in the family I will know where to come next time - thanks again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryM Posted 27 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2018 Sorry Frogsmile, I have only just seen your reply with the photos. I wouldn't have imagined something so colourful just from the b/w photo - really interesting, thank you. Thanks for the angloboerwar link too, I will take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 December , 2018 Share Posted 27 December , 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, KerryM said: Sorry Frogsmile, I have only just seen your reply with the photos. I wouldn't have imagined something so colourful just from the b/w photo - really interesting, thank you. Thanks for the angloboerwar link too, I will take a look. Check out what the 4th (Militia) Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment did in the Boer War and you will understand better what he experienced. The 1st and 2nd Battalion were regular soldiers and the 3rd and 4th (Militia) Battalions, plus Volunteer, ‘Service’ companies, were auxiliary, part-time, citizen soldiers from the towns and villages of Britain and Ireland. Your forebear then transferred to be a regular, in the artillery in 1902, just as the Boer war ended. Edited 27 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 12 February , 2019 Share Posted 12 February , 2019 The 4th (Militia) Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment were stationed at home during the war but sent drafts (2 from memory) to the 2nd Battalion who were engaged in the war as both Infantry as well as providing a contingent of Mounted Infantry. I have a group photo at home of one of the drafts before they went abroad if memory serves. I'll see if names are associated to the photo as I have not looked at it for some years so cant recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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