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Remembered Today:

Forestry work in France.


Oldleg

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Wondering if anyone can help me here. As some may have seen in the past I am studying the work carried out by the British and members of the British empire states in the area of Lyons La Forêt, Normandy. Can someone please confirm that the British Forestry corps confirm that it existed and if so, I would like to speak to experts on the subject and so I need pointing in the right direction. If it does exist I want to try to find out the names of any batallions that were here, that is if it was seperated into batallions.

 

We know that the British were here and are wanting to find out where in the forest of Lyons. We have rough ideas where they worked but want to confirm exact locations. Also, there were railway tracks that were laid down to transport the wood to the local saw mills and I am on the look out for any maps that exist showing where they were. 

 

If reports are kept at the national archives can anyone let me know catalogue numbers for war diaries etc? 

 

Any help in this matter will be much appreciated.  

 

Finally, I want to wish everyone on this form a very merry Christmas and a happy new year. 

 

Olek.       

DSCN2940.JPG

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Hello Olek,

 

I'm sure I delved into this subject a few years ago, but can't remember which region came up. Lyons la Foret rings a bell though.

One place to start, free and online, would be the war diaries of the Canadian Forestry Corps.

You may need to filter the search more, but try this link (if it works).

The Army Service Corps may be another avenue.

If I find any of my old notes, I will let you know.

 

Seasons Greetings,

 

Phil

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There were eleven Forestry Companies RE (not ASC) and about 70 companies of the Canadian Forestry Corps. Here are the diary references:

WO 95/4059 Lines of Communication Troops   
WO 95/4059 365 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 July - 1919 Feb.  
WO 95/4059 366 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 June - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4059 367 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 Aug. - Nov.  
WO 95/4059 368 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 Aug. - 1919 Feb.  
WO 95/4059 370 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 June - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4059 371 Forestry Company Royal Engineers 1917 Aug. - 1919 Mar.  

WO 95/4072 Lines of Communication Troops   
WO 95/4072 Headquarters Canadian Forestry Corps 1916 Nov. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4072 Bordeaux Group Canadian Forestry Corps 1918 Feb. - 1919 Apr.  
WO 95/4072 Central Group Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Apr. - 1919 Feb.  
WO 95/4072 Jura Group Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Jan. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4072 Marne Group Canadian Forestry Corps 1918 Sept. - 1919 Feb.  
WO 95/4072 Paris Detachment Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Nov. - 1918 Feb.  
WO 95/4072 Technical Warehouse Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Apr. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4072 No. 1 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Aug. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4072 2 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Oct. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4073    
WO 95/4073 Lines of Communication Troops   
WO 95/4073 4 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 July - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4073 5 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 July - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4073 6 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 July - 1919 Feb.  
WO 95/4073 9 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 May - 1919 Jan.  
WO 95/4073 10 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 Nov. - 1919 Mar.  
WO 95/4073 11 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1918 Jan. - Dec.  
WO 95/4073 12 District Canadian Forestry Corps 1917 June - 1919 Apr.  
WO 95/4073 1 Canadian Forest Company 1915 Sept. - 1919 Mar.  

 

They are all in the Lines of Communication section so they probably won't be on Ancestry, and may not even be online on TNA's website either.

 

Ron
 

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Having had a look through the Canadian Forestry Corps (France) HQ diary, I don't think they operated in that area. Below is an extract from a map I came across in the December 1917 diary.

 

 

Canadian Forestry Corps Dec 1917 map cropped.jpg

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23 minutes ago, nigelcave said:

Ron - wasn't there a Newfoundland Forestry company/unit as well?

 

Nigel

Not as such, according to the ORBATs during 1917 or 1918. There is no separate War Diary for such a unit, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one - it might have been lumped in under the Canadian umbrella for administrative convenience.

 

I couldn't see any Forestry War Diaries for theatres other than F&F, either

 

Ron

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Ah - good point, which I had overlooked. Home service, therefore unlikely to have war diaries.

 

This reminds me of a story I once heard about the trees in the Newfoundland Memorial Park. The designer visited the park in the early 1930s and expressed surprise that the trees had grown so tall - had they not used the species he had specified, which only grew to a height of about twelve feet?

 

The answer was that in Newfoundland they only grew to twelve feet or so because of the strong east winds off the north Atlantic, but in France they grew to thirty feet or more!

 

Ron

Edited by Ron Clifton
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Quite.

 

It was something of an issue when an international group (of which i happened to be an undistinguished and definitely nescient in matters horticultural member) were reviewing the site for renovation in c. 1999 - the original landscape design had not envisioned the Newfoundland-common trees growing as they did. I did manage to persuade them that one or two of them, that blocked a view to the rise of the valley on the far side of Y Ravine Cemetery and on to the Beaucourt Ridge, needed to go if the battle in the area was to be understood on the ground.

 

War Diaries: an interesting one that (one I had not considered before): Dominion units/formations away from home did not keep a WD if they happened to be in a non battle zone, then? Therefore, for example, no 2nd Battalion Newfoundland Regiment WD?

 

I suspect - no, perhaps more strongly, under no circumstances at all would any Nfd unit have tolerated  being 'lumped' with the CEF in WWI.

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36 minutes ago, nigelcave said:

War Diaries: an interesting one that (one I had not considered before): Dominion units/formations away from home did not keep a WD if they happened to be in a non battle zone, then? Therefore, for example, no 2nd Battalion Newfoundland Regiment WD?

There are a few diaries for UK-based Canadian units in class WO95, but no other Dominions' diaries as far as I can see. It is possible, of course, that some form of diary was kept by such units, but retained in the Dominions' own archives rather than in WO95. On the other hand, there are some diaries in WO95, mainly for headquarters but a few for units, stationed in the Colonies but not in a battle zone: PART X. This included WO95/5434 to 5452.

 

Ron

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6 hours ago, Phil Evans said:

Having had a look through the Canadian Forestry Corps (France) HQ diary, I don't think they operated in that area. Below is an extract from a map I came across in the December 1917 diary.

 

 

Canadian Forestry Corps Dec 1917 map cropped.jpg

There were Canadians working in our forest. According to a letter written in 1917 by Marian Baldwin an American lady who was visiting the area wrote that she visited a POW camplease in the forest of Lyons which surrounds the village of Lyons-La-Foret which was run by Canadians.

 

How can I find out which Forestry corps company was in the area? Uso there an easy way or do I have to dredge through the war diaries?

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I suspect that the numbers in circles on the map denote the companies stationed there. Otherwise the diaries of "Central Group" or " No.9 District" may help. The other groups such as Bordeaux and Jura can be ignored but as all the diaries in my list are in three box files even a full trawl should not be as bad as it sounds.

 

Ron

Edited by Ron Clifton
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You may have come across this book already but if not then 'Farming and Forestry on the Western Front 1915-19' by Murray MACLEAN is profusely illustrated (144 pages) and contains much useful information.   ISBN 1-903366-64-X first published in 2004.

Edited by Philip Wilson
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I think there seems to be a little confusion as to where Lyons La Foret is. Here is a map to show where it is. I don't think it would be under District 9. 

Map.jpg

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I forgot to mention when I started this thread that the chief of the local ONF (Office National des Forêt) does not have anything in his archives that can help about military activity in the area. apart from the fact we do know of certain that the Brits, Canadians, South Africans and Indians were here.  

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On 22/12/2018 at 14:10, Phil Evans said:

Hello Olek,

 

I'm sure I delved into this subject a few years ago, but can't remember which region came up. Lyons la Foret rings a bell though.

One place to start, free and online, would be the war diaries of the Canadian Forestry Corps.

You may need to filter the search more, but try this link (if it works).

The Army Service Corps may be another avenue.

If I find any of my old notes, I will let you know.

 

Seasons Greetings,

 

Phil

Phil, sorry I have only just seen your comment. I have just tried the link very quickly and came up with nothing. 

 

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On 23/12/2018 at 09:06, Philip Wilson said:

You may have come across this book already but if not then 'Farming and Forestry on the Western Front 1915-19' by Murray MACLEAN is profusely illustrated (144 pages) and contains much useful information.   ISBN 1-903366-64-X first published in 2004.

I have just ordered the book.  

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On 22/12/2018 at 14:10, Phil Evans said:

Hello Olek,

 

I'm sure I delved into this subject a few years ago, but can't remember which region came up. Lyons la Foret rings a bell though.

One place to start, free and online, would be the war diaries of the Canadian Forestry Corps.

You may need to filter the search more, but try this link (if it works).

The Army Service Corps may be another avenue.

If I find any of my old notes, I will let you know.

 

Seasons Greetings,

 

Phil

Phil if ever you remember anything about what you may have read concerning Lyons-La-foret please let me know, I would be very interested to hear about it. 

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A Happy New Year to you also Olek,

 

I will keep my eye out.

For a moment I did think that I had struck lucky with 316 MT Company ASC. They were on Forestry work in the Rouen area from October 1915 to September 1916, but when I checked their history (WO 95/4164/2), they were operating at Oissel, Caudebec, La Londe, La Milleraye and Le Vuy. They then handed over the forestry work to 736 MT Company. I don't have their diary (WO 95/4164/12).

 

Phil

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 29/12/2018 at 21:23, Phil Evans said:

A Happy New Year to you also Olek,

 

I will keep my eye out.

For a moment I did think that I had struck lucky with 316 MT Company ASC. They were on Forestry work in the Rouen area from October 1915 to September 1916, but when I checked their history (WO 95/4164/2), they were operating at Oissel, Caudebec, La Londe, La Milleraye and Le Vuy. They then handed over the forestry work to 736 MT Company. I don't have their diary (WO 95/4164/12).

 

Phil

Thanks for that Phil. Please let me know if you find anything, unfortunately the archives are too far for me to visit to loak at the war diaries.

 

Do you know where they were from 1916 onwards? 

Edited by Oldleg
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I saw this paper recently on archeology of timber use on the western front.

 

It doesnt directly answer the question but some of the references may be useful

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/timber-for-the-trenches-a-new-perspective-on-archaeological-wood-from-first-world-war-trenches-in-flanders-fields/6B0D2D7690DB7909CCAC5C09C4B5F411

 

You can download the PDF from the web site

 

Gavin

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