Collecting WW! medals

[frogy]

Hi everyone i am very interested in starting to collect and research ww1 medals but dont really know where to start. Where is the best place to buy named medals and once I have some how do you go about researching the soldier who they were issued to?

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

[LarsA]

A good idea is to buy from medal dealers to begin with, and when you are more familiar with naming styles and units ebay is a good source.

 

Medal index Cards and Medal rolls (ancestry) are a good source of information, sometimes you fond service records or pension records aswell.

 

And of course census records and public member trees on Ancestry can be good sources aswell.

 

I can also recommend joining the British Medals Forum.

 

ATB,

 

Lars

[Neil 2242]

3 hours ago, frogy said:

how do you go about researching the soldier who they were issued to?

From a medal, you have a name, rank, unit and number to begin with (which is a lot more than family historians often start with).

From there:

- MICs, medal rolls

- service papers

- CWGC, SDGW for casualties

- London Gazette for awards and for officer appointments

- medical records, war diaries, rolls of honour, absent voter lists, newspaper archives

The list goes on....

[hmsk212]

Hi

 

Decide what you want to collect and stick with it ie collect to a certain regiment and try to become an authority within that particular field.

 

Steve

[GWF1967]

3 hours ago, frogy said:

Hi everyone i am very interested in starting to collect and research ww1 medals but dont really know where to start. Where is the best place to buy named medals and once I have some how do you go about researching the soldier who they were issued to?

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Have a read of the section "how to research a soldier" on the Long long trail site, there's a link top left of the home screen. 

 Do you have a particular area/regiment of interest? 

 

If you keep eyes open you can find medals at car boot sales, in antique and charity shops, as well as eBay and medal dealers as already suggested. 

 Happy hunting. 

 

[Kitchener's Bugle]

I see that your location is Norwich.....why not keep to a Norfolk Regiment Theme, you might even get some local men.

 

[Ken Lees]

With so many medals to choose from, you might want to choose a theme. Many collectors decide on the local regiment, others, men from their town, or area. The advantage of this is that some of the research will be local - libraries, record offices, museums, churches, etc. 

 

Some might want to collect a medal (or group) to each regiment of the army, or each ship of the navy. 

 

Casualties - more expensive to purchase, but medals to those killed would given an additional aspect to research, where they were killed and where they are buried. I have a friend who is trying to collect a medal group to every cemetery on the Western Front. 

 

These are just a few examples. 

 

Every theme has its own merits and if you change your mind, selling those medals you bought that no longer fit your collecting focus releases cash to buy more that do! 

 

As for where to buy from, most of mine came via ebay, but there are dozens of dealers on-line. 

 

As mentioned in an earlier post, join the British Medals Forum. It is by far the best resource for collecting advice. 

 

Good luck. 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear frogy,

1) I collect only to Officers. One reason for this: my family produced numerous wartime AIF Officers. Another, because Officers can be researched in depth, unlike Other Ranks.

2) Medal groups to Officers are more expensive, but you should always aim at Quality (whatever you decide to collect). 

3) Buy complete, unbroken, groups from established Medal Dealers.

4) Try to build a (for you) meaningful collection with a definite theme (mine is, for example, Indian Army Reserve of Officers with a "Good Story")...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

[Ken Lees]

3 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear frogy,

1) I collect only to Officers. One reason for this: my family produced numerous wartime AIF Officers. Another, because Officers can be researched in depth, unlike Other Ranks.

2) Medal groups to Officers are more expensive, but you should always aim at Quality (whatever you decide to collect). 

3) Buy complete, unbroken, groups from established Medal Dealers.

4) Try to build a (for you) meaningful collection with a definite theme (mine is, for example, Indian Army Reserve of Officers with a "Good Story")...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

 

And this is why medal collecting is so interesting, because we often agree to disagree, such is the wide range of interests, themes and opinions.

 

1) Other ranks can be researched in depth, but you need a little more luck with them than with the majority of officers.

2) Quality is subjective and in my opinion is only really important for future value

3) I will happily buy broken groups if they are within my theme. A single victory medal for £20 can provide a far more interesting story when researched than a large, complete, group costing hundreds, or even thousands of pounds.

4) One theme might be very restrictive - e.g. men from your home town, so you may wish to pursue a second, or subsequent theme to keep your hobby ticking over whilst waiting for the occasional gem. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. 

 

As you can see, there is no right or wrong way and collectors are always interested and the what, why and how of others' collections and themes.

[MikeyH]

A lucky find a year or so ago, was a Victory Medal for £7.99, this came from a high street 'Cash Converters' of all places.

This had a local, Warwickshire link and with the majority of the recipients records surviving and available on line.

So you never know what you will find and where!

 

Mike.

Edited 25 December , 2018 by MikeyH

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Ken,

I am completely in agreement!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[chaz]

if you have no real 'interest' in a regiment

lets look at options..

officers will cost more than OR's and NCO's , war diaries will normally list officers killed in their reports.

Killed or died usually will command the high premiums, caveat. recently a died trio was priced at £150 , no interest, why? died of diabetes, had he died of wounds and was traceable through casualty clearing stations and hospitals next best, then finally KIA killed during a battle. the final lot,KIA, will get a mention in war diaries as killed  # OR other ranks.  £350

Dates, those died or killed on specific dates eg 1st July 1916, will command ridiculous prices. £900+

Notable actions, dog fights, MM, MC, VC actions will be pricey.

Line regiments, Wilts, Glos,, Kent, etc those county regiments are collectable as researchable through diaries or museums. 

cheapest to collect will be ASC, RE , Artillery and Labour Corps basically  because they could be anywhere at anytime so who knew where they were.

the sad thing is that those who came back have little or no records or recognition, My grandfather all I have is his service book, primarily because he was returned wounded he has some records, his brothers all 4 died along with a cousin are remembered in cemeteries, CWGC and regimental sites, Grandfathers name not recorded, no one will know where he is buried (apart from 3 or 4 of us left. Ive been to his grave maybe twice , his brothers I pass when in France and call in when I can. grandfather is 5 miles from me.

another great uncle has no records at all, you have by now read about burnt records, his pair would be £25.

in summing up, your decision who to collect. Budget will depend on choice, look at names on ebay, look at MIC for details, a missing star is harder to reunite than a complete trio.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear chaz,

Here also, I would agree with all you have stated.

In short, frogy has received sage advice from several vantage points.

This all goes to show the complexities of medal collecting, regardless of monetary outlay. For example, I acquired a reasonably-priced group of six to the Indian Labour Corps (Capt) including GSM clasp S. PERSIA: common, but in fact scarce on the market to Officers.

Personally, I never collect to KiA, but rather look for Officers who havegone on to other avenues in life, gaining, say, 35 Jubilees, OBEs and the like. 

I sympathise greatly with those whose records were burnt. For example, my grandfather was AIF - therefore records intact - with two MC recommendations: the last wounded as Coy Cdr in a VC action (MC London Gazette 1 Feb 1919)...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[mandy hall]

Another idea for a collecting theme, medals to men with your surname.

 

Mandy

[chaz]

I know off the forum, but to give an example, my youngest got persuaded to collect WW2 South African groups.

these are researchable through a couple of contacts on the BMF, can add pages of info, and being S.A medals are named. a group of 4 probably £40 + the same for research.

from a WW1 point of view, one of the groups does have a BWM from WW1 so possible.

a plug, Mark Carter usually has a bargain or two at his militaria fairs at fair prices, other sellers are available... 

[frogy]

Thanks for all the advice and pointers. I think as already suggested that i will collect Norfolk Regiment medals if i can, as i live in Norfolk and also got a personnal connection as my grandfather served in the Regiment in WW2 but was killed just before Dunkirk.

[chaz]

dont think you will ever stick to a subject.. I started Wilts and Glos regiments got 7 or 8 soldiers of each then started on family name... now over 100 family named from singles to mm group of 4.

then there are the ones too good to miss, finally with a house in France Im also on the look for those buried nearby.....

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear chaz,

You are so right! Medal collecting is addictive.

Moreover, the Great War was such an enormously Big Show, latterly giving untold opportunities to more fortunate individuals like ourselves, to collect to Umteen themes! 

My first serious acquisition in 1979-80 was the group named to Capt F. E. Elliot, RGA. I still have it - plus files packed full of information and photos (also with his wife: they had no children), since found of the erstwhile Lt-Colonel who was later a King's/Queen's Messenger.

In more recent search for "quality", I managed to secure an unusual K-i-H Second Class (primarily awarded to medical officers) group of medals to Lt-Col M. Dockrell (a Cantonments Officer), whose Image was happily found, but only after considerable effort...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

 

Edited 26 December , 2018 by Kimberley John Lindsay

[andyfear]

On 25/12/2018 at 12:32, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear frogy,

1) I collect only to Officers. One reason for this: my family produced numerous wartime AIF Officers. Another, because Officers can be researched in depth, unlike Other Ranks.

2) Medal groups to Officers are more expensive, but you should always aim at Quality (whatever you decide to collect). 

3) Buy complete, unbroken, groups from established Medal Dealers.

4) Try to build a (for you) meaningful collection with a definite theme (mine is, for example, Indian Army Reserve of Officers with a "Good Story")...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

Hi Kim, noted your interest was IARO, I am currently researching one of my relatives, and have just reached his Indian Army career.

I believe I can access his service records through the British Library rather than the National Archives?, but have not got this far yet!

He was commissioned into the 21st (PAVO) Cavalry in June 1918 as a Ltn.

He received an India G.S.M ( Waziristan,Afghanistan NWF clasps ) titled to Capt H Harris I.A.R.O

He was discharged from the Indian Army in 1922

Then the next info I have was on his appointment to the South African UDF in 1940, when his last Indian reg was given as 36th Sikhs.

So not sure when he joined the Sikhs from the Cavalry.

Previous to his Indian Army commission he was awarded the DCM as a private in the Civil Service Rifles,  following an action just 5 days after he was commissioned into the Kings Liverpool reg in May 1915, ( the news hadn't reached the front! )

So all in all he had quite a "good story"!

I am also a new collector , enthused, after researching this group I have recently inherited, so your above advice is appreciated!

brgds and seasonal greetings

Andy

[Ron da Valli]

Living in North Wales my main theme is collecting to Royal Welsh Fusiliers and I have quite a few awarded to local men. As a cyclist I also collected Army Cyclists Corps. As a result from research I have started to collect medals that either have an accompanying photograph or a photo that I have found through research before I buy. I also had a spell of buying artillery trios as they were relatively inexpensive. Of course you don't even need to have a theme, just buy medals that are interesting to you. 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Andy,

I have the Daly's Horse (21st Cavy) entry for Jan 1919, showing him as Lieut H. Harris, MC - first commission 19 May 1915 and ex-13th King's Liverpool Regiment.

He joined the Indian Cavy on 13 Jul 1918.

Qualifications: Instructor in Bombing; Qualified in Lewis Gun; Qualified at a School of Musketry...

No doubt a GWF cognoscenti could supply his MC card, which would be interesting, adding to the "good story"!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[andyfear]

Thanks for that Kim, yes strange one this,him being listed as MC.  As you say he was commissioned on 19th May but, he won a DCM at Festubert on 24/25th May whilst still serving as a private with the Londons, would have been MC, maybe if had received commission. Won DCM assisting another unit as a bomber!

Andy

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Andy,

Perhaps his DCM was upgraded to an MC?

Should be easy enough to check, one would think... 

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Kitchener's Bugle]

On ‎25‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 21:26, mandy hall said:

Another idea for a collecting theme, medals to men with your surname.

 

Mandy

 

Always a good Idea....its not one of my themes but I just cannot help myself!!! 

[Coldstreamer]

Depends on your name.  I've only seen 3 !