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Jervis

Hussars - rank = Spr OR Tpr

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Jervis

Viewing the pension records of a great grand uncle  (Patrick McAuley, 46279 of the 15th Hussars) his rank is recorded as "Spr". (Sapper?). Although viewing the original record, this probably should be rank = "Tpr". (Trooper?). 

 

Can anyone confirm:
(a)what the SPR or TPR rank is?
(b) what is the distinction from the ordinary rank of private (which he is record on his medal records)? 
(C) which of the two ranks is more likely in the Hussars

 

 

Thanks in advance. 
Jervis 

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Gareth Davies

(a) Spr is indeed a Sapper, the lowest rank (equivalent to Pte) in the Royal Engineers.  Tpr is the lowest rank (equivalent to Pte) in the Household Cavalry (but not line Cavalry).

(c) Neither. Back then the cavalry had Ptes; Tpr came in after the war.

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Ron Clifton

Hello Jervis

 

The most obvious answer is that TPR stands for Trumpeter. There were no Sappers in the cavalry, and the rank of Trooper did not replace Private until after the war.

 

Ron

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Gareth Davies

His Medal Index Card shows him as a Pte.

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Jervis

Thanks very much Gareth & Ron for the responses. "Trumpeter" that is an interesting one! 

This man was a pre-war regular and served on the western front from August 1914 right through to 1919. From what I can ascertain he was never recorded as a casualty. I have wondered if he had a relatively less dangerous role. Would the role of "trumpeter" have somehow allowed him to avoid more dangerous situations? 

Edited by Jervis

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Steven Broomfield
49 minutes ago, Jervis said:

I have wondered if he had a relatively less dangerous role. Would the role of "trumpeter" have somehow allowed him to avoid more dangerous situations? 

 

No.

 

If anything, the opposite - as a Trumpeter he would have been with the officer commanding either a Squadron or the regiment, so probably in a more dangerous spot. if fighting dismounted, he would still be expected to be close to the Boss.

 

The question I would be interested to know the answer to - is 'Trumpeter' a rank or an appointment? He could, I suspect, technically be a Private, but carrying the appointment of Trumpeter. In that case, bot Messrs Davies and Clifton could be right.

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ss002d6252
25 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

No.

 

If anything, the opposite - as a Trumpeter he would have been with the officer commanding either a Squadron or the regiment, so probably in a more dangerous spot. if fighting dismounted, he would still be expected to be close to the Boss.

 

The question I would be interested to know the answer to - is 'Trumpeter' a rank or an appointment? He could, I suspect, technically be a Private, but carrying the appointment of Trumpeter. In that case, bot Messrs Davies and Clifton could be right.

1914 KR's, Ranks and Appointments for that rank.

 

image.png.d58dec2e84a1bcbd996464c4fbc2bf81.png

 

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252

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Terry_Reeves

The medal roll shows his rank as private.

 

TR

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Steven Broomfield
1 hour ago, Terry_Reeves said:

The medal roll shows his rank as private.

 

TR

 

Thanks; I think that confirms (with Craig's assistance) that he was a Parivate with the appointment of Trumpeter.

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Jervis

Thanks all for comments, very informative. 

 

I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. 

 

Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. 
However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use? 

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ss002d6252
1 minute ago, Jervis said:

Thanks all for comments, very informative. 

 

I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. 

 

Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. 
However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use?  

The quoted Kings Regs are a consolidated issued from Aug 1914 so Trooper was used by that point (The section was last amended by a Feb 1913 Army Order as far as I can establish so that pushes it back further) - as to which parts of the cavalry used it though I don't know.

 

Craig

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Gareth Davies
1 hour ago, Jervis said:

Thanks all for comments, very informative. 

 

I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. 

 

Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. 
However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use? 

 

Correct.  It didn't come into existence in the (line) cavalry (Dragoon Guards, Dragoons, Hussars, Lancers) until after the war.  But the rank of Trooper did exist in the Household Cavalry Regiments (The Life Guards and the Royal Horse Guards). 

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Steven Broomfield

You will also see Trooper used (erroneaously) by Yeomanry regiments, but it's still not a 'thing' until 1922.

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