Jervis Posted 15 December , 2018 Share Posted 15 December , 2018 Viewing the pension records of a great grand uncle (Patrick McAuley, 46279 of the 15th Hussars) his rank is recorded as "Spr". (Sapper?). Although viewing the original record, this probably should be rank = "Tpr". (Trooper?). Can anyone confirm: (a)what the SPR or TPR rank is? (b) what is the distinction from the ordinary rank of private (which he is record on his medal records)? (C) which of the two ranks is more likely in the Hussars Thanks in advance. Jervis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 15 December , 2018 Share Posted 15 December , 2018 (a) Spr is indeed a Sapper, the lowest rank (equivalent to Pte) in the Royal Engineers. Tpr is the lowest rank (equivalent to Pte) in the Household Cavalry (but not line Cavalry). (c) Neither. Back then the cavalry had Ptes; Tpr came in after the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 15 December , 2018 Share Posted 15 December , 2018 Hello Jervis The most obvious answer is that TPR stands for Trumpeter. There were no Sappers in the cavalry, and the rank of Trooper did not replace Private until after the war. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 15 December , 2018 Share Posted 15 December , 2018 His Medal Index Card shows him as a Pte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jervis Posted 16 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2018 (edited) Thanks very much Gareth & Ron for the responses. "Trumpeter" that is an interesting one! This man was a pre-war regular and served on the western front from August 1914 right through to 1919. From what I can ascertain he was never recorded as a casualty. I have wondered if he had a relatively less dangerous role. Would the role of "trumpeter" have somehow allowed him to avoid more dangerous situations? Edited 16 December , 2018 by Jervis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 49 minutes ago, Jervis said: I have wondered if he had a relatively less dangerous role. Would the role of "trumpeter" have somehow allowed him to avoid more dangerous situations? No. If anything, the opposite - as a Trumpeter he would have been with the officer commanding either a Squadron or the regiment, so probably in a more dangerous spot. if fighting dismounted, he would still be expected to be close to the Boss. The question I would be interested to know the answer to - is 'Trumpeter' a rank or an appointment? He could, I suspect, technically be a Private, but carrying the appointment of Trumpeter. In that case, bot Messrs Davies and Clifton could be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said: No. If anything, the opposite - as a Trumpeter he would have been with the officer commanding either a Squadron or the regiment, so probably in a more dangerous spot. if fighting dismounted, he would still be expected to be close to the Boss. The question I would be interested to know the answer to - is 'Trumpeter' a rank or an appointment? He could, I suspect, technically be a Private, but carrying the appointment of Trumpeter. In that case, bot Messrs Davies and Clifton could be right. 1914 KR's, Ranks and Appointments for that rank. Craig Edited 16 December , 2018 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 The medal roll shows his rank as private. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 1 hour ago, Terry_Reeves said: The medal roll shows his rank as private. TR Thanks; I think that confirms (with Craig's assistance) that he was a Parivate with the appointment of Trumpeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jervis Posted 16 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2018 Thanks all for comments, very informative. I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 1 minute ago, Jervis said: Thanks all for comments, very informative. I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use? The quoted Kings Regs are a consolidated issued from Aug 1914 so Trooper was used by that point (The section was last amended by a Feb 1913 Army Order as far as I can establish so that pushes it back further) - as to which parts of the cavalry used it though I don't know. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 1 hour ago, Jervis said: Thanks all for comments, very informative. I would like to be thorough and completely exclude Trooper as a possibility. Earlier posts said the rank of Trooper did not come into existence until after the war. However Craig's post says "ranks & appointments" from KR 1914; which includes the rank of "Trooper". Does that mean The rank of "TPR" Trooper may have existed during the war or another possibility that by the time the pension records were drawn up, possibly Trooper was by then in common use? Correct. It didn't come into existence in the (line) cavalry (Dragoon Guards, Dragoons, Hussars, Lancers) until after the war. But the rank of Trooper did exist in the Household Cavalry Regiments (The Life Guards and the Royal Horse Guards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 You will also see Trooper used (erroneaously) by Yeomanry regiments, but it's still not a 'thing' until 1922. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 5 May , 2022 Share Posted 5 May , 2022 Slight deviation from the subject but... Can anyone tell me when/if Trooper was used in the RHA in place of Gunner. The chap I'm looking at was a pre-war regular who died on 03 May 1920 and a local reference has him as Trooper but most records show him as Gunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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