the german coal skuttle steel helmet

[ireland12345]

The iconic ww1 german helmet is a stunning design in every way,of course it replaced the picklehaube as it didnt offer enough protection.Iv lost count how many i have. I like the smaller sizes with the double step lug vent,also the liner with the leather band rather than the steel band.It looks at its most dramatic displayed on a manequin head.Have any of the forum member any m16 helmets, or picklehaubes?James

[trenchtrotter]

To start you off. I am not bothered if M16 or 17. I have M18’s also. Now post some of yours please.

[Jools mckenna]

Not as fortunate as you 2 as I only have one which is relic found at Passendale which I repainted.

[Jools mckenna]

I have some bits and pieces of pickelhaubes too

[Gunner Bailey]

I'd like comments on this helmet. It has an interesting story.

 

I bought it about 15 years ago from a Dutch antique dealer, who didn't specialise in militaria but had some knowledge.

 

He bought the helmet in a village on the Lower Saxony coast near the Dutch border in a house clearance. The story of the helmet is that the original owner, had been home on extended leave in mid 1918 after being wounded in France in April. After leaving hospital he was allowed to have leave and recover at home.

 

Whilst at home he painted his helmet ready to return to service in October 1918. The helmet is meticulously painted in the Autumn colours and the interesting difference to most of these helmets is that a fabric was used to mark the black lines some of which is still attached under the paint. Close up you can see zigzag edge of the fabric.

 

The inside of the helmet has been very heavily painted (looks like 3 coats) and it is just possible to see 66 but not the makers mark. It has the M17 liner and the chin strap looks original .

 

Apparently the soldier managed to stay at home until the Armistice due to his wound and never returned to service. The helmet stayed in the top of a wardrobe for over 70 years, until the house was cleared.

 

The Dutch dealer thought it was 'too good to be true', which I agree may be the case. I suppose the only way of verifying it is to have the paint lead tested. Anyway because the dealer thought it was too good to be true I bought it off him for a little over what he paid for it - I gave him £100.

 

Here are some photos. Please excuse the shine, which is mainly due to flash being used. The helmet is quite dark overall and I've added 1.5 stops exposure to make it more viewable.

 

I'm no expert on WW1 German Helmets but have owned about 10 in the last 20 years. I like them a lot.

 

So comments are invited.

 

 

Edited 20 December , 2018 by Gunner Bailey

[trenchtrotter]

I don’t like it. Buy the helmet not the story. The pins don’t match the paint panels. No wear and tear  nor wear to areas such as edges and crown. Where did conversing soldier obtain his paint from. If he is away from front he would not know of directives? All conjecture but even if stored as suggested no aging. Looks too new to me. Sorry it would not reside in my collection. My opinion of course.

[Gunner Bailey]

Happy to accept your view, but there are counter arguments to the points you're made. 

 

It's certainly a genuine M17. 

[Steven Broomfield]

I have none, but I thought it was spelt 'scuttle'.

[trenchtrotter]

4 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said:

Happy to accept your view, but there are counter arguments to the points you're made. 

 

It's certainly a genuine M17. 

Of course you can take my comments as you wish. I took liberty of showing the pics to a major collector and author and a chap who has been involved with these all his life. He too did not like the paint. No age, no wear, pins etc. It is what it is but I am confident that paint is wrong. All said for price you paid you’ve not lost out. 

[Gunner Bailey]

1 hour ago, trenchtrotter said:

Of course you can take my comments as you wish. I took liberty of showing the pics to a major collector and author and a chap who has been involved with these all his life. He too did not like the paint. No age, no wear, pins etc. It is what it is but I am confident that paint is wrong. All said for price you paid you’ve not lost out. 

 

I'm not in total disagreement with you TT. Re read my post #5. However I will point out that under the existing paint there are signs of scrapes and some minor knocks. It had been used prior to the final repaint.

 

If the helmet was repainted in the calm of a farmhouse, rather than 2nd line trenches the painting would probably be better than most. Also if it was never worn and was stored away for 70 years the paint would be in good un-faded condition. I've been at a few auctions at Bonhams and and seen near mint cavalry helmets from the early 1800's so why can't a WW1 helmet be near mint? You mention how the soldier might know the latest instructions? If he was healing it's quite likely he had to attend a military hospital or barracks for his recovery to be checked. It's likely he would be told to repaint the helmet prior to rejoining his unit. Lack of paint? Never heard that in WW1. It was food the Germans lacked.

 

So I'm with you on suspecting the helmet is 'too good to be true'. However 'what if' by a 1000/1 chance it was right?

 

I'm sure there are lots on this forum that would have been happy to risk £100 on it as well as me. 

 

 

[trenchtrotter]

Not so much a lack of paint but paint would be a depots behind the lines and not available for a soldier to self paint whilst convalescing from a wound. Like I said £100 is OK and worth it. I just honestly cannot accept that paint as original. What I think is sad is that most likely a lovely feld grau paint finish underneath which puts helmet at £400 - £500 now if good. Anyhow I have made my judgement for what it was worth. Enjoy the item for what it is and if you think its ok who am I to say. Seasonal greetings to you and yours.

[trenchtrotter]

Nice to see OP has bothered to contribute / reply. Not impressed James!